Fun With Two Or Three Points ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not sure what being "near the basket" has to do with the situation? To be clear, while A2 was not anywhere near the basket, neither was A1, they were both outside the three point arc. The disparity in the heights of both players and the closeness of shooter A1 to his screener, put screener A2's head in the way of the "normal" trajectory of A1's three point attempt.

Did you say "awkwardly ricochets" into the basket? So I am assuming that that means that the shot or the ball is nowhere near the basket or has a chance to go in otherwise. At some level, we have to judge if the ball is going to the basket just like the other play originally. It is not explicit in the caseplays you posted, but there is something like that in other rules. So if I throw the ball to the sideline and the ball hit me and goes over to the basket and everyone was behind the 3-point line, you giving 3 points? Not sure I agree with that either.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did you say "awkwardly ricochets" into the basket? So I am assuming that that means that the shot or the ball is nowhere near the basket or has a chance to go in otherwise.

While the original trajectory from A1 was "normal" and had a good chance to go in, the awkward ricochet from A2 was also "normal" enough to have a good chance of going in, demonstrated by the fact that it did, indeed, go in. There isn't only one single trajectory that works, there can be multiple successful trajectories from one launch spot (line drive versus arching shot), and certainly from two different launch spots.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So if I throw the ball to the sideline and the ball hit me and goes over to the basket and everyone was behind the 3-point line, you giving 3 points?

Great example. I'm a big fan of extreme examples to test ideas.

I honestly don't know the answer. I'm not even "leaning" one way.

Again, while we allow a successful three point try, and a successful three point pass (alley-oop), do we allow a "successful" three point (everybody behind the arc) defection?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

At some level, we have to judge if the ball is going to the basket ... something like that in other rules.

Like the goaltending rule?

Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket.

Which begs the question, can an alley-oop pass from behind the three-point line (as we've discussed in this thread) that is on it's downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and having the possibility of entering the basket, be legally touched by a player?

Yes it can, it's not a try, even though it's been "kind of" treated as such since 2001-02 (remember Destiny's Child's "Bootylicious"?).

[BillyMac]

Maybe the important factor is if the ball is below (or above) the ring level when it touches (deflects off of) another player (offensive or defensive)?

4.41.4 - Situation B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. Ruling: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

In 4.41.4 Situation B the ball is on the way down (try is short). In my silly scenario, the ball is on the way up.

Screener A2's head was definitely below the ring.

Grasping at straws here, straws to support any answer, either way.