The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 17, 2021, 06:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,190
I said this the last time this came up: The offense's job is to hold on to the ball. The defense's job is to get the ball. They both failed. So, take turns.

One change I could support is to let the team with the arrow defer. The team without the arrow would inbound, and the arrow would remain unchanged.

You want to have a better chance to get the ball with 15 seconds left? Give the ball to the other team with four minutes left.

You don't want to have to go 84 feet to score with 2 seconds left in the first half? Give the other team a chance to score from their front court.

Etc.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:50am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
Interesting, Very Interesting ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
One change I could support is to let the team with the arrow defer. The team without the arrow would inbound, and the arrow would remain unchanged. You want to have a better chance to get the ball with 15 seconds left? Give the ball to the other team with four minutes left. You don't want to have to go 84 feet to score with 2 seconds left in the first half? Give the other team a chance to score from their front court.
The NCAA is already considering permitting a team to decline free throws, so they could consider bob jenkins's creative idea to permit a team to decline (pass on and keep) the arrow.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Apr 18, 2021 at 12:53pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 18, 2021, 12:18pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
Followup Article ...

https://news.yahoo.com/why-won-t-nca...110000372.html
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 18, 2021, 12:25pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,558
More dumb media commentary about rules. Then do not watch. The tournament makes over a Billion dollars a year. Someone is watching a lot.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 18, 2021, 12:43pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
Perverse To Good Basketball ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
More dumb media commentary about rules.
Charging Calls Drawn By Off-The-Ball And/Or Help-Side Defenders

Off-the-ball and/or help-side defenders drawing charging calls are ruining basketball. Is there anything worse than seeing an offensive player make an athletic move to beat his primary defender, head toward the basket poised to do something dramatic, only to be robbed of the play’s crescendo because another defender slid in front of the driver?

While “sacrificing one’s body” to step in front of an on-coming dunker may reflect commitment to one’s team, it is not really “a basketball play.” Stealing the ball, blocking or otherwise contesting the shot should be a help-side defender’s only options.

The charge drawn by the off-the-ball defender punishes an offensive player for taking the initiative. It bails out the primary defender who has been beaten. In other words, the incentives created are perverse to good basketball.

This is not to suggest there should be no offensive fouls called. A player with the ball should not be able to lower his shoulder and ram through his defender like Benny Snell bulling through the line on third-and-short.

What needs to be eliminated entirely, though, is off-the-ball and/or help-side defenders being rewarded for impeding drivers by drawing charges. To do that, one could expand the restricted zone, the area under the goal in which defenders are presently not allowed to draw charges, to encompass the entire lane.

Or perhaps the rule is changed to say a charge can only be drawn by an offensive player’s primary defender and it is then left to the discretion of game officials to enforce that.


I know that you college guys, with your restricted zones (I do realize that there is a difference between off-the-ball defenders, help-side defenders, secondary defenders, and primary defenders), may agree with the writer, and disagree with me, but "taking charges" has been an accepted defensive strategy in the game of basketball for a very long time.

NFHS 4-37-3: Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court, provided the player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent.

In my opinion, drawing charges is a real basketball play, is not ruining basketball, and is not perverse to good basketball.

It's been around for a very long time, and is a very exciting part of the game.

Listen to the fans excitedly roar after one of their players "takes a charge".

Watch the excitement of the defender's teammates as they peel him off the floor.

And watch the defender, no matter how badly is tailbone hurts, bounce right back, showing all smiles, and hustling to his new offensive position.

Dollars to doughnuts, I bet that this writer gets literally orgasmic at dunk contests.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Apr 19, 2021 at 10:44am.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 19, 2021, 10:28am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
Good Defense ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Off-the-ball and/or help-side defenders drawing charging calls are ruining basketball. Is there anything worse than seeing an offensive player make an athletic move to beat his primary defender, head toward the basket poised to do something dramatic, only to be robbed of the play’s crescendo because another defender slid in front of the driver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... not really “a basketball play".
The first year my youngest daughter played any type of organized basketball, she played in the town's recreation league. Like many recreation leagues, this league had a "no zone, only man to man defense" rule, likely to encourage kids to learn how to play good fundamental man to man defense.

While a basketball beginner, and not a very good basketball player, my daughter was very "sports smart", athletically fast, and fairly tall for her age (later becoming a three sport athlete).

On defense, when a teammate would "lose" her man, my daughter would instinctively (never taught or coached) slide over to defend the basket (she didn't know it at the time, but she was providing "weak side help defense"). Opposing coaches would complain, officials (high school players earning a few bucks on weekends) would listen, and my daughter was constantly whistled for playing a zone defense ("stay with your man").

Always two simultaneous games on "side baskets" in a small middle school gym with no marked lanes on these "side baskets", so no free throws. With little skill, but by using her speed, height, and intelligence, my daughter had lots of chances to score, but was constantly fouled "in the act", with no free throws to reward her effort.

She (as did I) liked her recreation league coach (a fellow basketball official), and liked her recreation league teammates, but the next year she and I both decided that she would tryout for (and play) travel basketball ... "real" basketball.

And "real' basketball always includes weak side help defense (and taking charges).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Apr 19, 2021 at 12:41pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 19, 2021, 11:20am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,558
I do not think coaches are going to want to take away the ability to defend plays near the basket in that way this fool described. That is clearly a fan talking and not thinking of how you would counter that action. Coaches want to be able to defend actions too. If they do not want charges, pass the ball or pull up and shoot. Not very difficult.

Also when he stated the issue with the rule possibly being brought in about resetting the fouls and being confusing, that shows how little he even understands the business side of the game. Men's basketball is not going to quarters because it takes away a possible TV timeout. That is the reason quarters is never advocated for. Women's basketball does not make money. They do not need the extra timeout. Men's basketball does make money, so you add that quarter break you are changing their sponsorship structure or have to change other things to accommodate. It is really that simple and would not be a hard rule to deal with honestly. Other rules would have bigger issues, but some talking head thinks he knows the difference or issues.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 19, 2021, 05:14pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
There's No I In Team ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Is there anything worse than seeing an offensive player make an athletic move to beat his primary defender, head toward the basket poised to do something dramatic, only to be robbed of the play’s crescendo because another defender slid in front of the driver?
Yes, there is something worse, seeing one on one isolation basketball, something that turned me off to NBA basketball many, many years ago (I was a big fan back in ancient times). NBA basketball was never better than those great Boston Celtics and New York Knicks teams of the 1970's (it has gotten slightly better the past few years).

Basketball is a team sport. Always was, always will be.

Yes, I'm well aware that of all the major team sports (basketball, football, baseball, hockey, soccer), some basketball teams may be successful in the long term (season) based on the outstanding individual skills and impact of a single player (one of only five on the floor), but it's still a team game. Team offense. Team defense. Teamwork.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 21, 2021 at 10:07am.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Potential blocker or not? Illini_Ref Football 17 Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:13am
Potential for a big mess.... Andy Softball 36 Tue Apr 12, 2011 06:31pm
NCAAM Throw-in, potential IW Rich Basketball 2 Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:58pm
Potential litigation? fullor30 Basketball 14 Sun Jan 17, 2010 02:30pm
NFHS vs. NCAAM rules VTOfficial Basketball 3 Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:30am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1