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Golf Clap and Standing Bench Personnel
There's a local team with a decent win-loss record for which I officiate games. For several years now, when it gets down to the last 10 seconds or so, and when when their win is assured (usually with a 10+ point lead), everyone on the team's bench stands and slowly claps (much like a golf clap) until the final horn sounds. They don't do this when they're about to lose, nor when the game is very close (around ~8 points or so), because the outcome isn't certain.
Relevant Rule and Case Book Play: 10-5: The head coach is responsible for his/her own conduct and behavior, as well as substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not: ART 4... Stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, and shall remain seated. 10.5.4 SITUATION B: Team A coaches and substitutes are all standing during a free throw by A1. The infraction is detected by the officials. How many technical fouls are assessed? In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. One technical foul is charged to Team A and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach in this situation, resulting in the loss of coaching-box privileges. It seems a bit unsporting that they would do this only when they're about to win, but it doesn't seem productive to stop the game to record either a warning (and, in the case of a running clock due to the mercy rule, would be counterproductive) or assess a technical foul under 10-5-4 (which would just postpone the inevitable win just the same). Is this team's collective behavior just something to overlook or should it be addressed as unsporting (starting next season, as we're now finished with the regular season and the regional tournament)? If they did this for every game it might be different, but it's only when a win is imminent. I can imagine the reaction of the head coach if one of us stops the game to address this. It'll go over like a lead balloon. Nevertheless, these questions remain: Judge it legal? Address it as as an association? Something else? |
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I'm counting down to 10 and hitting the locker room.
Yes, it is technically an infraction but not one I or anyone else is going to care about.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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What are we addressing? Celebration?
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Non-spontaneous, premature celebration outside the limits of 10-5-4, I suppose, but yes, celebrating.
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If a change is going to come to that particular behavior, the direction needs to come from a higher authority, not an individual basketball official. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Aside from posting the question here, it's been five seasons and I still haven't taken any action yet. So, here's to season six!
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I Just Want To Celebrate (Rare Earth, 1971) ...
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Premature? Not really. Non-spontaneous? Definitely. Celebration? Definitely. Immediately? Ten seconds? Pushing the limits. Allowed? Was there an outstanding play by a team member? Unsporting? Possibly. Quote:
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 20, 2021 at 11:40am. |
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Quote:
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Quote:
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Exception ...
I agree with the rest of JRutledge's recent post, but will remind the Forum that his statement above is not completely true. There are rule exceptions to allow some "mob action" by the bench. Bench personnel are always allowed to spontaneously react to an outstanding play by a teammate (or to acknowledge replaced players), but must immediately return to their seats.
To paraphrase JRutledge, many of us will also allow a few other things on a case by case basis using our experience, game management skills, judgement, local "culture", and common sense. I occasionally come across a bench "players", or assistant coaches, that "uncomfortably" delay returning to their seats after enthusiastically cheering (maybe for a tomahawk dunk), and will simply remind them to sit down as I pass the bench (not a written warning), and I'm usually immediately backed up by the head coach, or more often than not, an assistant.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 20, 2021 at 12:48pm. |
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Quote:
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) Last edited by JRutledge; Sat Mar 20, 2021 at 01:32pm. |
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Then Any Bench Mob Action Is Also A Technical Foul ???
You said, "then any bench mob action is also a T".
Any? No. Not true. Any bench "mob action" is not a technical foul. Sure, some bench "mob action" may be a technical foul (taunting), but some bench "mob action" is always legal, by rule. Here's one "mob action" that is never a technical foul: bench personnel spontaneously reacting to an outstanding play by a teammate but must then immediately return to their seats. Assuming nothing else is complicating the situation, this bench "mob action" is never a technical foul in a high school game. Not even a judgment call. It's never a technical foul (assuming nothing else is complicating the situation). Agree.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 20, 2021 at 02:52pm. |
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Quote:
Quote:
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Lots Of Gray Areas ...
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Wasn't spontaneous (appears orchestrated over many years). Doesn't appear to be a reaction to a single outstanding play by a teammate (more of a reaction to an assured victory). Bench personnel did not immediately return to their seats. They were up for about ten seconds. Lots of "gray" areas. To agree with your earlier point, that's where using our experience, game management skills, judgement, local "culture", common sense, and looking at each situation case by case allows us to react to the situation, maybe ignoring and letting the clock run out, or maybe "bumping up" the situation as a question to be answered by a higher authority. I don't believe that a technical foul in that game based on a single official's belief that it's illegal or unsporting is the way to go here. But I don't question his wanting some outside input into a situation that he believes is questionable in terms of the "standing" rule as written, or as an unsporting act. If the situation keeps bothering him over many years, his best bet is to discuss it with his assigner, an assigner who can then bump it upstairs if he wishes, or if not, tell the official to take a hike.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 20, 2021 at 06:15pm. |
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