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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2021, 01:28pm
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Fun With An Illegal Dribble ...

Is this an illegal dribble? Observe the play and make a determination if the ball handler committed an illegal dribble violation.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...VK5hUVSWDh.mp4

Two choices: This is an illegal dribble. This is not an illegal dribble.

My comment: This is an illegal dribble. Illegal dribble or palming/carrying. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
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Old Tue Feb 23, 2021, 01:50pm
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I do not see more than a handshake, so no I do not have an illegal or palming call.

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Old Tue Feb 23, 2021, 02:06pm
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Handshake ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I do not see more than a handshake, so no I do not have an illegal or palming call.
Like the "handshake" analogy. Tough call for me. It was close. Seemed to have gained a sight advantage on the crossover move.
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Old Tue Feb 23, 2021, 02:07pm
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The ball is in the dribbler's hands going froward (toward the endline) and then goes toward the middle of the lane. Violation.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Tue Feb 23, 2021 at 02:10pm.
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Old Tue Feb 23, 2021, 02:10pm
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Thought I Heard It All ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Like the "handshake" analogy ...
I've heard this before. Like it.

Been around basketball for almost fifty-five years. Thought I heard it all. Wrong.

Yesterday. Kid throws up a crazy three pointer that ricochets really hard off the backboard and rockets through the basket. As I'm signaling the successful three, going from tableside old trail to new lead, I pass the coach who says to me, "It's before five o'clock. The bank's open".

How have I come this far without ever hearing that?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 23, 2021 at 02:18pm.
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Old Tue Feb 23, 2021, 02:27pm
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Time Out ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Yesterday.
I'm tableside trail, I hear "Time out. Time out." from an adult male voice directly behind me, where the head coach normally stands. No adult male assistant. No parent spectators tableside. Nothing important going on on the court.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy. I grant the timeout. Big mistake.

It's not the head coach. It's his adult male scorekeeper (table not centered on the court, it's closer to home bench) advising the head coach that he should call a "time out".

Lazy. I know better. Live and learn. Picked a good time to screw up, it wasn't a very close game. Won't ever happen again to me. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, double shame on me.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 23, 2021 at 06:23pm.
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Old Tue Feb 23, 2021, 02:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I've heard this before. Like it.

Been around basketball for almost fifty-five years. Thought I heard it all. Wrong.

Yesterday. Kid throws up a crazy three pointer that ricochets really hard off the backboard and rockets through the basket. As I'm signaling the successful three, going from tableside old trail to new lead, I pass the coach who says to me, "It's before five o'clock. The bank's open".

How have I come this far without ever hearing that?
This was used by the NF as an interpretation. Surprised you never heard about it. Palming was a POE this year and it was used in the Simplified and Illustrated book this year on page 17. So not a new term or one I made up. It has also been used in powerpoints from the NF for years when it was a POE several years ago.

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Old Wed Feb 24, 2021, 09:54am
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I have an illegal dribble that affects the play. He intends push the ball to the floor in one direction and then changes direction of the ball while the ball is still in his hand.


Now reading through the thread, I see Bob saw the same thing I did and has the same logic for calling a violation.

Always listen to Bob.

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Old Fri Feb 26, 2021, 11:03am
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IAABO Survey Says …

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...VK5hUVSWDh.mp4

IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: This is an illegal dribble.

Green #23 executes a "crossover" dribble to maneuver past the primary defender to get into the lane to attempt a try. As he begins this move, the ball comes to rest in his right hand, and he "carries" the ball across his body to the left before dropping the ball and continuing to dribble. The dribble ends when the dribbler allows the ball to come to rest in one or both hands. When he dribbles again, it is considered an illegal dribble. A dribbler can execute this move legally by keeping his/her hand on top of the ball as they push the ball to the floor.

This illegal move is fairly common in our game, and you rarely see a violation ruled for this infraction. 65% of respondents correctly identified this as a violation. How many of you would actually make the ruling on the court?


Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is an illegal dribble 65% (including me); This is not an illegal dribble 35%.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 26, 2021 at 12:30pm.
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Old Fri Feb 26, 2021, 11:56am
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Palming Or Carrying ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
My comment: This is an illegal dribble. Illegal dribble or palming/carrying. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: This is an illegal dribble. As he begins this move, the ball comes to rest in his right hand, and he "carries" the ball across his body to the left before dropping the ball and continuing to dribble. The dribble ends when the dribbler allows the ball to come to rest in one or both hands. When he dribbles again, it is considered an illegal dribble.
From an earlier IAABO International video play commentary:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
IAABO International Play Commentary: There is a distinct difference between palming and carrying. Palming occurs when a dribbler can maintain their pivot foot, allows the ball to come to rest, and then completes a second dribble. This is an illegal dribble, commonly referred to as a double dribble. Carrying occurs when the ball comes to rest while the dribbler moves the pivot foot in excess of prescribed limits. This violation is covered within the traveling rule.
It appears that the guardians of the IAABO universe have confused themselves.

If one is going to differentiate between palming and carrying, then be consistent, otherwise just "lump" them together in one signal that most understand to be two different violations (illegal dribble, traveling).

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 27, 2021 at 12:13pm.
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Old Fri Feb 26, 2021, 10:12pm
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I felt it was a well-executed crossover dribble. Did it push the limits of legality? Yes, but in my opinion virtually all behind-the-back dribbles while driving toward the basket involve a greater appearance of "cupping or carrying" the ball from one side of the body around to the other side than this crossover dribble. Has anyone seen or called a behind-the-back dribble a violation?

Last edited by billyu2; Fri Feb 26, 2021 at 10:23pm.
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Old Sat Feb 27, 2021, 12:44pm
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Répertoire ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It appears that the guardians of the IAABO universe have confused themselves. If one is going to differentiate between palming and carrying, then be consistent, otherwise just "lump" them together in one signal that most understand to be two different violations (illegal dribble, traveling).
While I always realized that the "call" was actually one of two different violations (illegal dribble or travel), I never realized that there was a difference between a carry and a palm (one signal, two verbiages).

I'm not sure that I want to add this to my basketball official répertoire (pardon my French).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 27, 2021 at 04:33pm.
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