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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 10:46am
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Fun With Taking The Train …

Is this correctly ruled a traveling violation? Observe the play and make a judgment on the traveling violation. The offensive player receives the ball near the foul line (does he travel?) and then he drives toward the basket (does he travel after ending his dribble)?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...u20QhLYuYe.mp4

Four choices: The traveling violation occurred in the free throw semi-circle. The traveling violation occurred when the player ended his dribble. The offensive player traveled twice on this play. There is no traveling violation on this play.

My comment: The offensive player traveled twice on this play. To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. On a pass, or a shot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but may not return to the floor before the ball is released.

Thoughts?
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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 10:59am
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I think your ruling is right but your reasoning is wrong. On the first play, he catches the ball with the RF on the floor. He then re-positions the RF before starting the dribble -- that's the travel. On the second, he tries a jump stop but the feet don't land simultaneously.
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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 11:08am
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I agree that the initial move at the top of the key could/should be ruled a travel.

On the one that was actually called--and I had to watch it several times--it looks like the player lands left foot followed by the right foot, then uses the left foot as a legal pivot foot and takes a step with the right foot. I see a legal play here?

Bob - if you want to argue that the player picked up the ball with his right foot still on the floor before the jump stop, I won't disagree...
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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 11:32am
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Second Travel ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danvrapp View Post
On the one that was actually called, and I had to watch it several times, it looks like the player lands left foot followed by the right foot, then uses the left foot as a legal pivot foot and takes a step with the right foot. I see a legal play here?
I also had trouble with the "second" travel as well. The timing between the movement of the pivot foot and the "subsequent" pass was real close, split second close. Thought he lifted the pivot foot before the pass, but just barely.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 04:39pm.
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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 04:35pm
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The Fashion Police Cometh ...

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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Thoughts?
Two Red Team players with black undershirts? Not a good look for a varsity game.
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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 10:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Two Red Team players with black undershirts? Not a good look for a varsity game.

I gotta say, this year in my neck of the woods, there has been zero interest top to bottom in enforcing uniform rules. We’re just happy to be on the floor at all.

No doubt we’ll have to rein this in next year.


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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 11:47am
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Get In, Keep Everybody Safe, Get Out, Get Paid ...

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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
I gotta say, this year in my neck of the woods, there has been zero interest top to bottom in enforcing uniform rules. We’re just happy to be on the floor at all.
"Safety is number one priority." (Crazy Russian Hacker)
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Feb 11, 2021 at 01:02pm.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 02:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Is this correctly ruled a traveling violation? Observe the play and make a judgment on the traveling violation. The offensive player receives the ball near the foul line (does he travel?) and then he drives toward the basket (does he travel after ending his dribble)?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...u20QhLYuYe.mp4

Four choices: The traveling violation occurred in the free throw semi-circle. The traveling violation occurred when the player ended his dribble. The offensive player traveled twice on this play. There is no traveling violation on this play.

My comment: The offensive player traveled twice on this play. To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. On a pass, or a shot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but may not return to the floor before the ball is released.

Thoughts?
The first part of the play looks like a travel. The second part after the jump stop, while looks like a travel, does not actually appear to be a travel. I see that get called all the time though because it looks weird. His pivot foot after the jump stop stayed put the whole time from what I could tell.
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Old Sat Feb 13, 2021, 02:31pm
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IAABO International Play Commentary ...

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...u20QhLYuYe.mp4

IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: The traveling violation occurred in the free throw semi-circle.

The question posed on this play was, “Is this correctly ruled a traveling violation?” In this play, Red #34 establishes his left foot as the pivot foot. He quickly slides the pivot foot forward before releasing the ball to start the dribble. This is a traveling violation and should have been ruled. (4-44-3c) The new Trail official on this play had just retreated toward the division line after a rotation by the Lead official. After this position adjustment, he appears to have an open view of the dribbler when the violation occurred.

It is tough to be sure where the pivot foot was when the dribble ends at the end of the play. The dribbler has his right foot in contact with the floor before jumping into the air. But because a teammate of the dribbler (Red #21) obstructs our view of the right foot around the time the ball handler is attempting to end the dribble, it is difficult to see if the player is still in contact with the floor when the dribble ended.

If the right foot were in contact with the floor when the dribble ended, the subsequent landing (left foot, followed by the right foot) by the ball handler, would be considered illegal. If a player ends a dribble with one foot in contact with the floor, the only legal way to return to the floor with the ball is to land simultaneously on both feet. (4-44-2.b2) If the ball handler were airborne when the dribble ended, when he landed on the left foot, followed by the right foot, this would be a legal play, establishing the first foot to touch, the left foot, as the pivot foot. (4-44-2.a2)

In our view of the play, we were uncertain if the player ended the dribble with the pivot foot on the floor or not, so we tended to rule the landing to be a legal play. We were certain a travel occurred at the start of the dribble, so that is the official answer on the play.

In fairness to those who see a travel at the end of the play. The Lead official has a great angle and an open view of the ball handler as the dribbler ends the dribble and returns to the floor with the ball. In his assessment of the play, he ruled this to be a traveling violation, which very well could be an accurate ruling.

The most important aspect of these plays is to understand the rules that apply. The travel rule continues to be one of, if not the toughest rules to apply in our game. Officials should be a rules expert when it comes to understanding the prescribed limits of the pivot foot. (4-44) A clear understanding of the rule and commitment to identifying the pivot foot of ball handlers within your PCA will go a long way in improving the accuracy of this ruling. As we have stated on all the traveling plays, we have posted throughout the season. Officials should be 100% certain a violation has occurred before making the ruling. If you needed to watch this play multiple times and/or needed to slow the clip down and go frame by frame to see the travel, were you 100% sure a violation occurred?


Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: Believe the player traveled twice on this play (once at the start of the dribble and once again at the end of the dribble) 55% (including me); Believe the travel occurred only at the start of the dribble 27%; Believe the player traveled only after the dribble ended 15%; Did not see a travel on this play 3%.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 13, 2021 at 02:34pm.
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