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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 10:51am
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Suggested Coin Flip Procedure ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Eliminating the jump ball and beginning the game with a coin flip and using alternating possession the rest of the contest.
To start the game, the ball shall be put in play by a throw in by the team that wins the coin toss between opposing captains at the pregame coaches/captains/officials conference. The referee will toss the coin. The home captain will call either heads, or tails, while the tossed coin is in the air. The referee will provide the coin for the coin toss. This coin must be legal tender in the United States (having an easily identified head, and tail), and that it's face value be at least one United States cent. The losing captain of the coin toss shall be allowed to keep the coin, thus insuring that all parties leave the pregame coaches/captains/officials conference happy. It is considered unsporting, and must be penalized with a technical foul, charged to the home team captain, for said captain to call, "Heads I win. Tails you lose", or any variation of said call.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 01:44pm.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 10:55am
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More Jump Ball Rants ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I take the jump ball as seriously as I can for an event that simply puts the ball in play and (usually) happens only once. Not very.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Now, once a game, the tallest players on each team square off against each other, the referee tries to make a decent toss, and the umpire just hopes that nothing "weird" happens because many of us, including me, don't know the jump balls rules as well as we knew them years ago. That's why we have the various myths, like "Hold your spots". I haven't seen a tough jump ball question on an IAABO Refresher Exam in years, that's gotta tell you something.
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Ever since the introduction of the alternating possession arrow, it has been my contention that many otherwise extremely competent officials either don't fully understand and memorize all the many jump ball rules and restrictions, and/or it's difficult to watch for all the many violations and many restrictions that can occur during the jump ball, especially in a two person game. And we only get to observe various jump ball situations once (usually) a game. As the umpire in a two person game, I'm watching for common violations, jumpers tapping the ball on the way up, jumpers catching the ball, or jumpers touching the ball more than twice, before the jump ball ends (touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, or the floor). I'll also watch for the ball hitting the floor without being touched by at least one of the jumpers. Unless one of the nonjumpers does something really weird, I'm probably not going to observe any non-really-weird violations from them. To avoid some nonjumper violations, as the umpire (or the referee) prejump, I will warn nonjumpers standing within three feet of the jump ball circle not to stand three feet directly behind anybody. To my point of otherwise extremely competent officials not fully understanding and memorizing all the many jump ball rules and restrictions, several times a year I hear otherwise extremely competent (state tournament late round) varsity officials saying, prejump, "Hold your spots" to all eight nonjumpers, or, "You can't stand behind him”, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, both whom are ten feet off the jump ball circle. The jump ball is archaic, some jump ball rules are poorly memorized/understood and/or poorly enforced, and we should start games with some other method.
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
Having a very tall center, my son's 8th grade team runs a play on jump balls with a player cutting to get to an open space for a long tip. The player does not line up on the circle, but stays at 5-10' off the circle. They've had a lot of success on this. In a recent game, however, a referee called a violation, ruling that he was not allowed to move until the ball was tipped. That's wrong, isn't it? I'm not too worried about a one-off mis-call, but if we're teaching a play that is properly a violation, we should change it.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 11:35am.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 11:46am
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Team Control ...

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Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
The only change that I advocate is to Stop appealing/deferring to the arrow to determine possession when the a try for goal gets stuck in the ring support and the ball is put out of play; just give the ball to the other team.
Happens on a throwin violation when this happens.

Who's the "other" team? No team control if it's a try. What if it's not a try, but a deflected pass? Touched last?
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I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 03:22pm.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 12:05pm
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Back Off The Circle ...

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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
Having a very tall center, my son's 8th grade team runs a play on jump balls with a player cutting to get to an open space for a long tip. The player does not line up on the circle, but stays at 5-10' off the circle. They've had a lot of success on this. In a recent game, however, a referee called a violation, ruling that he was not allowed to move until the ball was tipped. That's wrong, isn't it? I'm not too worried about a one-off mis-call, but if we're teaching a play that is properly a violation, we should change it.
Back when I was coaching middle school basketball and we had a very tall player, I would put all four of my nonjumpers on the circle, instructing the player in front and to the right to my jumper to back off the circle at the very beginning of the toss and run toward our basket. The jumper would tap the ball forward and slightly to the right with some force and we would get a wide open right hand layup and go up two to zero.

After having a few officials calling this a violation, I always quietly and politely told both officials before every game that we were going to do this and reminded them that it was legal for players to back off the circle at any time, before, during, or after the toss.

"Hold your spots"? No such rule for everybody.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 01:46pm.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 12:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

Thanks for quoting me, but after a season of starting with many games with a throw-in, I am ready to go back to the jump.

My only point is that I don't need to be as obsessive as you seem to be about the jump ball rules. I know them, but spend little time thinking about them.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 01:02pm
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Misty Watercolor Memories Of The Way We Were ...

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
... after a season of starting many games with a throw-in, I am ready to go back to the jump.
Interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
... spend little time thinking about them.
Me too.

I know that I should know the jump ball rules better, but I figure why bother for a play that only happens once (usually) per game; lasts only a split second; rules that basically might as well be in "Greek" to players, coaches, and fans; and that usually goes "smoothly" 95% of the time.

I've got bigger fish to fry.



... Yeah, like give the ball to the road team.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 03:11pm.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 01:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Interesting.
There's no excitement at the beginning of games. It's just like starting the second half with no game history. Yawn.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 01:20pm
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Excitement ...

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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
There's no excitement at the beginning of games ... Yawn.
Good point, never thought of that. Still didn't change my mind. But again, it's a great rationale for retaining the jump ball.

I've got my first COVID-19 game tomorrow. Some schools, no spectators. Others, one parent per player. Many others, two parents per player. Only a few, up to a family of four per player. Yawn.

Really cuts down my chances of meeting hot single Moms. Too bad, I look a lot more handsome wearing a mask.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 06:38pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 03:32pm
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Jump Ball Excitement ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
... but after a season of starting many games with a throw-in, I am ready to go back to the jump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
There's no excitement at the beginning of games. Yawn.
Maybe I've changed my mind. Would hate to see games start without this:



Love these gals.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 10, 2021 at 03:47pm.
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