The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 17, 2021, 09:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 39
Starting the NFHS closely guarded count

Gentlemen:

I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times before on this site, but I am looking for some clarification for a specific situation that created some interesting -- if not heated -- discussion.

The ball is being held in the frontcourt near the table-side sideline. The defender is within six feet, BUT he is clearly off to the side of the ball handler with the intention of either forcing him up the sideline OR to take away his right-hand dribble.

In the judgment of the official, the defender was not between the offensive player and the basket but was at a harsh angle to defend the open floor.

Should the five-count begin or not?
__________________
HoopsRefJunior
"If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving"
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 17, 2021, 09:49am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,716
Definition ...

4-10: A closely guarded situation occurs when a player in control of the ball in his/her team’s frontcourt, is continuously guarded by any opponent who is within six feet of the player who is holding or dribbling the ball. The distance must be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler. A closely guarded count must be terminated when the offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past the defensive player.

4-23-1: Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 17, 2021 at 09:52am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 17, 2021, 09:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 39
Thanks for the quick response Billy

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
4-10: A closely guarded situation occurs when a player in control of the ball in his/her teams frontcourt, is continuously guarded by any opponent who is within six feet of the player who is holding or dribbling the ball. The distance must be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler. A closely guarded count must be terminated when the offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past the defensive player.
Billy, thanks for the quick response, and I very much respect your opinions and responses on this site. I've seen this and I've read all the definitions and case book situations I can find, but I guess I'm still not understanding 100%.

So the positioning of the defender (in determining the start of the 5-count) only matters if the ball handler's head extends beyond the defender? With the play in question, the defender was "off to the side" of the ball handler and not between the ball handler and the basket.
__________________
HoopsRefJunior
"If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving"
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 17, 2021, 11:05am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,716
Guarding ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsRefJunior View Post
... I guess I'm still not understanding 100%.
By definition, if the defender is placing his body in the path of a dribbling ball handler, that's guarding, if within six feet, that's closely guarding (by definition, but see below regarding a ninety degree angle).

So, by definition, it really doesn't matter where the basket is, it's where the dribbling ball handler is going.

That said, I'm starting a five second count when the defender is within six feet and is defending the dribbling ball handler at a ninety degree angle, as in the dribbling ball handler moving east/west (across the basketline) and is crossing (not heading toward) the defender.

HoopsRefJunior brings up some great questions.

What if the ball handler is holding the ball? There is no path for the ball handler because he's stationary. So maybe in that case, and maybe only in this case, he can be guarded, and closely guarded, from behind?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 17, 2021 at 02:15pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:10pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,716
I Know It When I See It ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
HoopsRefJunior brings up some great questions.
Maybe this is a case of:

"I know it when I see it" is a colloquial expression by which a speaker attempts to categorize an observable fact or event, although the category is subjective or lacks clearly defined parameters. The phrase was used in 1964 by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity.


__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 30, 2021, 04:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 97
is the hangup between guarding someone (within 6 ft at any angle) and LGP which is in front of the offensive player less than 6 ft away? If you think about it when a player is trapped along the sideline or division line you would start your 5 sec count no matter where the defender(s) are ... in front, along side, even behind
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 01, 2021, 11:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Maybe this is a case of:

"I know it when I see it"
Thanks for helping us all to "see it!"
__________________
Dan R.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Closely Guarded Count Fritz Basketball 31 Fri Mar 27, 2009 06:41pm
Closely Guarded Count With Screener BillyMac Basketball 12 Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:18am
Terminate Closely Guarded Count? Rick Durkee Basketball 1 Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:44pm
closely guarded count weatherok Basketball 1 Thu Feb 14, 2002 02:10am
Closely Guarded count bob jenkins Basketball 4 Thu Feb 17, 2000 12:27pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1