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-   -   Kentucky Eliminating Jump Ball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105146-kentucky-eliminating-jump-ball.html)

SC Official Wed Sep 23, 2020 08:53pm

Kentucky Eliminating Jump Ball
 
https://kentuckysportsradio.com/bask...etball-season/

So what purpose does this serve?

Billy will love this.

Camron Rust Wed Sep 23, 2020 09:10pm

The jump ball change is not about the players but about the officials. Many officials are far more in the vulnerable group than the kids. By not having the jump ball, and other mechanics changes, it allows the officials to maintain distances throughout the entire game.

SC Official Wed Sep 23, 2020 09:11pm

I plan to maintain social distancing from the coaches during my games. :)

SC Official Wed Sep 23, 2020 09:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039740)
The jump ball change is not about the players but about the officials. Many officials are far more in the vulnerable group than the kids. By not having the jump ball, and other mechanics changes, it allows the officials to maintain distances throughout the entire game.

What other mechanics changes are going to allow social distancing to be maintained?

Camron Rust Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1039742)
What other mechanics changes are going to allow social distancing to be maintained?

No ball handling. Players retrieve the ball, hold it, and then resume play upon direction from the administering official. The official can then stay as far away as they need/want to. That primarily serves the purpose of preventing the transmission from handling a whistle with saliva then touching the ball then touching the face area again but it also removes the situation where an official hands the ball to a player for a throwin.

Raymond Thu Sep 24, 2020 06:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039743)
No ball handling. Players retrieve the ball, hold it, and then resume play upon direction from the administering official. The official can then stay as far away as they need/want to. That primarily serves the purpose of preventing the transmission from handling a whistle with saliva then touching the ball then touching the face area again but it also removes the situation where an official hands the ball to a player for a throwin.

I think my HS commissioner is planning something along those lines.

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JRutledge Thu Sep 24, 2020 07:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039745)
I think my HS commissioner is planning something along those lines.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I have not seen anything going this far at this time. Mostly what we are asked to do is wear masks going into buildings and having some kind of electric whistle or whistle cover. Nothing game related like this at this point. I doubt this will be something we even see at this point. At least in Illinois, it is going to be a bigger issue if we even play games. So I think if this is a suggestion, we probably will not be playing on time at least.

Peace

Valley Man Thu Sep 24, 2020 07:56am

We have played "no players in the spaces for FTs" in a few tourneys at one facility for youth games. I have to say I kinda enjoy it. No jockeying and shoving 6 people together at once, no dumb violations, during 2 shots the teams have started talking with the coach eliminating some time outs, and my favorite is no trash talking which is one spot that it inevitably happens.

LRZ Thu Sep 24, 2020 09:41am

I skimmed the KHSAA handbook, referenced in the article; unless I missed something, it does not say anything about open lane spaces or no ball handling; to the contrary, it specifies that officials should bounce the ball to players from six feet away.

Otherwise, it is mostly about now-standard protocols to prevent spreading: social distancing, handwashing, sanitizers, no handshakes, etc.

BillyMac Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:29am

It's The Old Set Up BillyMac ...
 
... to get him in trouble and get him suspended from the Forum trick.

It's the oldest trick in the book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1039738)
Billy will love this.

You all see how Forum members try to set me up. It's a big conspiracy I tell you, a big conspiracy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1039739)
Billy has no right to claim victory, because this has nothing to do with officials’ perennial inability to toss a ball straight up in the air ...

... and know 100% of the rules and then apply them consistently in a split second.

Agree, no victory lap for me, but ...

https://tse4.explicit.bing.net/th?id...=0&w=305&h=183

No jump balls in Michigan, Mississippi, and now Kentucky.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. must be rolling over in his grave.

Wait? I'm being told ... Are you sure? Did anybody check his breathing with a mirror? Barely? Never mind.

BillyMac Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:38pm

COVID Precautions ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1039742)
What other mechanics changes are going to allow social distancing to be maintained?

Mississippi:

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1039582

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1039750)
KHSAA handbook ... does not say anything about open lane spaces or no ball handling.

Camron Rust may have been referring to Michigan:

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1039545

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1039739)
Yeah, and I heard they were going to keep players out of lane spaces during free throws as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Man (Post 1039748)
We have played "no players in the spaces for FTs" in a few tourneys at one facility for youth games ...

crosscountry55 was being sarcastic (blue font). Valley Man was referring to a non-interscholastic youth game at single site in his state.

Camron Rust Thu Sep 24, 2020 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039753)

Camron Rust may have been referring to Michigan.

Not specifically, but that is the direction we're going in Oregon. It isn't approved yet, but it is likely since I'm proposing it and the state basketball committee has agreed to it.

JRutledge Thu Sep 24, 2020 02:06pm

Having worked this summer, this all sounds really silly. I get maybe bouncing the ball on a throw-in when we would hand it, but I do not get how we have players get everything on their own. I could see that as causing other in-game issues. But if that is what we have to do, I guess, but not very practical. Players tend to go faster than when we are ready and with substitutions and other inadvertent delays, I just am not a fan. But again maybe if there is a stated procedure meaning how we let them know we are ready, I guess. But I see that is them doing things and we having to stop things and that will be a pain in the behind.

The NCAA gave officials masks (face covering kind from the neck) and to me that would be better than making us do something else.

Peace

Camron Rust Thu Sep 24, 2020 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039755)
Having worked this summer, this all sounds really silly. I get maybe bouncing the ball on a throw-in when we would hand it, but I do not get how we have players get everything on their own. I could see that as causing other in-game issues. But if that is what we have to do, I guess, but not very practical. Players tend to go faster than when we are ready and with substitutions and other inadvertent delays, I just am not a fan. But again maybe if there is a stated procedure meaning how we let them know we are ready, I guess. But I see that is them doing things and we having to stop things and that will be a pain in the behind.

The NCAA gave officials masks (face covering kind from the neck) and to me that would be better than making us do something else.

Peace

No amount of space/bouncing removes the potential of transmission from a referee touching his/her whistle with saliva on it, then touching the ball, which is then touched by several others who are touching who knows what, only to then be touched by an official again who touches his/her whistle and so on.

Without anyone really knowing how this thing is spreading, to me, that seems like the most probable avenue of transmission. And it isn't so much a way to protect the kids but to offer some degree of protection (even if it is just imagined) to the officials who are by and large in a much more vulnerable age group. We're expecting a substantial level of attrition and, with that, a very difficult time covering the games that we'd have. This may be the one thing that keeps a few more officials around.

Camron Rust Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1039757)
Just for some perspective, I looked up the survival rates for coronavirus infection on the CDC website. As of last week the numbers were:

0-19 99.997% survival
20-49 99.98%
50-69 99.5%
70+ 94.6%

I would guess most of those officials Cameron is worried about fall in the 50-69 age group. Based on these statistics, and the statistics for obesity and obesity related illness in the US, those officials have orders of magnitude greater chance of having a heart attack and dying during the game than they have of catching and dying from cronoavirus.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, perhaps a bigger issue is keeping enough officials to be able to cover the games. It may be necessary to do things that statistically don't appear to be that beneficial just to satisfy the concerns of the officials.

JRutledge Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1039757)
Just for some perspective, I looked up the survival rates for coronavirus infection on the CDC website. As of last week the numbers were:

0-19 99.997% survival
20-49 99.98%
50-69 99.5%
70+ 94.6%

I would guess most of those officials Cameron is worried about fall in the 50-69 age group. Based on these statistics, and the statistics for obesity and obesity related illness in the US, those officials have orders of magnitude greater chance of having a heart attack and dying during the game than they have of catching and dying from cronoavirus.

The issue is not dying. There are other things that can happen to you if you contact the virus or that we do not know for sure what can happen to you. So if that is all you are worried about, then you are not dealing with the facts of the concern.

Peace

Raymond Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1039757)
Just for some perspective, I looked up the survival rates for coronavirus infection on the CDC website. As of last week the numbers were:



0-19 99.997% survival

20-49 99.98%

50-69 99.5%

70+ 94.6%



I would guess most of those officials Cameron is worried about fall in the 50-69 age group. Based on these statistics, and the statistics for obesity and obesity related illness in the US, those officials have orders of magnitude greater chance of having a heart attack and dying during the game than they have of catching and dying from cronoavirus.

Survival rates aren't the issue. If an official tests positive, do you think he'll be working any more games for the next couple of weeks? What about his partners from the last game he worked? Will they have to wait to work, or will they be allowed to work immediately? What about the other officials he worked with the week prior to testing positive?

That goes for any business. If your employees start popping up positive, how are you going to conduct business? Are customers are going to want to utilize your business?

It goes beyond whether or not a particular person will die or get severely ill.

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BillyMac Fri Sep 25, 2020 09:10am

Long Term Effects ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039759)
The issue is not dying. There are other things that can happen to you if you contract the virus ...

Agree.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.K...=0&w=230&h=173

According to the Mayo Clinic (a pretty reliable source), long term COVID-19 effects may include:

Fatigue
Cough
Shortness of breath
Headache
Joint pain

Lasting damage to the heart muscle that may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.

The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.

COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome, a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle. Other organs affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys.

COVID-19 can weaken blood vessels, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.

COVID-19 patients treated in a hospital's intensive care unit with mechanical assistance such as ventilators can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.

Yesterday, on a "bad day" when I was experiencing a lot of pain in my arthritic right ankle, I visited Home Depot to purchase some lumber to make new ramp for my backyard chickens. Reached the entrance and realized that I had left my mask in the car. Turned around and limped back to my car to get my mask. Was pissed at myself for forgetting, but didn't give a second thought to how stupid and fruitless, as some people think, wearing a mask was. Didn't give a second thought to how high the survival rate of COVID is. Didn't give a second thought to how, as some people think, my governor and Home Depot were depriving me of my liberty, turning people like me into "sheep". I was just happy (and felt patriotic) to wear my mask to protect other people, both shoppers and Home Depot workers (who have to work to provide for their families), from the slight possibility of me asymptomatically having the coronavirus. I did give COVID a second thought when, for my own safety, I (with the advice of my physician daughter, nurse daughter, and my own primary care physician) decided that it's still too early to go back to church, or to go back to my gym.

ChuckS Fri Sep 25, 2020 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039758)
I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, perhaps a bigger issue is keeping enough officials to be able to cover the games. It may be necessary to do things that statistically don't appear to be that beneficial just to satisfy the concerns of the officials.

Coverage is definitely an issue. There is a local tournament this weekend, and I have been bombarded with many emails and texts looking for officials. Last year that never happened. Just got another one a few minutes ago.

JRutledge Fri Oct 16, 2020 09:13am

IHSA doing the same.....
 
Illinois will be doing similar but they will give the ball to the visiting team to start the game instead. If the game is a neutral site, then a coin flip will decide who gets the ball (visiting team calls it like in football). If there is an overtime or extra period, a coin flip will decide who gets the ball to start the game at that point.

Peace

todd66 Fri Oct 16, 2020 09:49am

Where did you get that information? Is it on the IHSA website?

JRutledge Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd66 (Post 1039899)
Where did you get that information? Is it on the IHSA website?

I got it from Sam Knox at a meeting last night where he discussed this issue. Also there was another PowerPoint floating around that was presented that gave more information. It does not appear it is announced but it is likely to be on the the Rules Video in a few weeks.

Peace

todd66 Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:08am

Thanks. Will watch for it in the coming days.

BillyMac Fri Oct 16, 2020 01:16pm

Let Me Root, Root, Root For The Home Team ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039898)
... give the ball to the visiting team to start the game instead. If the game is a neutral site, then a coin flip will decide who gets the ball (visiting team calls it like in football). If there is an overtime or extra period, a coin flip will decide who gets the ball to start the game at that point

Why make it so complicated, BillyMac said nit-pickingly.

Somebody has to wear white jerseys. Somebody has to be the home team on most (although not all) scoreboards. It's usually decided ahead of time, often based on seeding.

Start the game with the team not wearing white getting the ball. Start all overtime periods with the direction of the possession arrow at the end of the the previous period, as the second, third, and fourth period started.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Q...=0&w=351&h=165

Not picking on JRutledge, or The Land of Lincoln, just thinking out loud.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.I...=0&w=300&h=300

Rich Sun Oct 18, 2020 02:56pm

I've cleaned up the thread and gave a poster some time off.

I suppose I need to watch the forum closer despite the general lack of activity.


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