Hop Step??????? - Page 2

Damian · #16 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 22, 2003, 08:21am

The key is to watch the pivot foot. This is well defined and several in this thread have discussed this.

The hardest part I see is when the dribble is picked up. I have seen players use a high dribble take a couple of steps without holding the ball, then jump, grab the ball, take a hop, land on both feet (or close enough), then shoot. This is usually going through players in the lane. It looks a lot like a travel, but it isn't. I had a coach go over this with me once with his hotshot player and I had to agree that it was not a travel. However, most officials would call it traveling.

Camron Rust · #17 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 22, 2003, 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris

Picture this:

a player catches or pass (or picks up his dribble) with both feet off of the floor. The first foot to touch when he lands is the pivot foot. He lands on pivot foot, steps, leaping off of the other foot. He may now land on both feet provided he lands on both feet simultaneously. Once he lands, neither foot can be a pivot. He may step but he can not place a foot back down.

Sorry, Barry -- that won't work. Once the second foot touches, the first foot becomnes the pivot foot, and moving (lifting then placing on the floor) that foot is travelling.

What you meant to say was: a player catches a pass (or picks up his dribble) with both feet off the floor and lands on one foot, or catches a pass with one foot on the floor. He jumps off of that foot before the other foot hits the floor. HE may now land on both feet proveded he lands simultaneously. Once he lands, neither foot can be a pivot.

Also, note that some coaches call "catching the ball with both feet off the floor and landing on both feet simultaneously" a jump stop. In this case, either foot can be a pivot.

Bob, I think we are both seeing the same play here but it is hard to put into words. The second foot does not have to touch to make the first foot to touch the pivot foot. If a player is in the air when he catches the ball, the first foot to come down, if not simultaneous, is the pivot foot. The step that I described after the pivot foot lands assumes the player had forward momentum and the pivot foot is not lifted before the jump.

Actually, bob's right. The first foot only becomes the pivot when the second touches. Otherwise, they would not be able to jump off first for the legal jump stop.

Still, it traveling when they jump, in your case, and land.

To land on left, step with the right, jump off the right then land on both is traveling. (A step is when foot touches the floor, not when it is lifted).

The player can only jump off of the first foot down when they catch the ball while airborne (or off the 1 foot that is on the floor when they catch the ball). As soon as the 2nd foot makes contact with the floor, the opportunity to legally jump stop is gone....they've already pivot.

Barry C. Morris · #18 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 22, 2003, 01:00pm

O.K., I looked at it again. You guys are right. You have to jump off of the foot that first lands. BTW, I do call this correctly. I just can't write it.

As penance for my incredible blunder, I will work a couple of 30 and over games at the local Y so they can tell me how bad I suck for a couple of hours.

Jurassic Referee · #19 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 22, 2003, 01:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris
O.K., I looked at it again. You guys are right. You have to jump off of the foot that first lands. BTW, I do call this correctly. I just can't write it.

Don't feel bad, Barry. They've put the "jump stop" question on the exam for about the last 45 straight years, I think; and for 45 straight years, I've had to read the damn question about 4 times to try and figure out whatthehell they're talking about.

JeffTheRef · #20 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 23, 2003, 10:17pm

you pay carefullest attention to WHEN THE PLAYER PICKS UP THE BALL. That determines exactly what subsequent moves are possible.

Just for one example, the most common, most egregious violation of the jump stop off the dribble is picking the ball up 'too soon' - that is, on the back foot, then striding onto the front foot, then leaping on to two feet. Then, for the hat trick, players may then pivot, raise their pivot foot and step towards the basket, and shoot, or pass. Might as well not have any dribble rules at all. Everyone just run around like chickens with heads cut off . . . this particular violation actually was pioneered in this metropolitan area by a particular player!

BktBallRef · #21 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 24, 2003, 12:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris

Quote:

Originally posted by bludevil1221
I'm trying to re-enact the play in head, bear with me.....So if A1 drives to the basket, picks up the ball, takes his two steps, then hops......? This is really hard to talk about without a visual aid...

Picture this:

a player catches or pass (or picks up his dribble) with both feet off of the floor. The first foot to touch when he lands is the pivot foot. He lands on pivot foot, steps, leaping off of the other foot. He may now land on both feet provided he lands on both feet simultaneously. Once he lands, neither foot can be a pivot. He may step but he can not place a foot back down.

Sorry, Barry -- that won't work. Once the second foot touches, the first foot becomnes the pivot foot, and moving (lifting then placing on the floor) that foot is travelling.

What you meant to say was: a player catches a pass (or picks up his dribble) with both feet off the floor and lands on one foot, or catches a pass with one foot on the floor. He jumps off of that foot before the other foot hits the floor. HE may now land on both feet proveded he lands simultaneously. Once he lands, neither foot can be a pivot.

Also, note that some coaches call "catching the ball with both feet off the floor and landing on both feet simultaneously" a jump stop. In this case, either foot can be a pivot.

Bob, I think we are both seeing the same play here but it is hard to put into words. The second foot does not have to touch to make the first foot to touch the pivot foot. If a player is in the air when he catches the ball, the first foot to come down, if not simultaneous, is the pivot foot. The step that I described after the pivot foot lands assumes the player had forward momentum and the pivot foot is not lifted before the jump.

Barry, without regard to what you're "seeing," what you described in the other post is traveling. The dribbler can't jump off the second foot in the scenario you describe. He would have to jump off the pivot foot without the second foot initially touching the floor.

Bob was correct.

PS - Oops! I see now, on page 2, where you realized your mistake. Sorry!