NFHS 2020,21 POE's

[sdoebler]

I know you copy/pasted but this line is confusing to me:

To obtain initial legal guarding position on a player with the ball, the defender must get to the spot first without contact, have both feet touching the floor and initially face the opponent within six feet.

Since when is six feet a requirement for LGP?

ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

I know you copy/pasted but this line is confusing to me:

To obtain initial legal guarding position on a player with the ball, the defender must get to the spot first without contact, have both feet touching the floor and initially face the opponent within six feet.

Since when is six feet a requirement for LGP?

ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.

They left ou the proper wording in 4-23-1 that says,

There is no minimum distance required between a guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded.

They clearly did not use the entire wording of the rule when stating the 6 feet reference.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

I know you copy/pasted but this line is confusing to me:

To obtain initial legal guarding position on a player with the ball, the defender must get to the spot first without contact, have both feet touching the floor and initially face the opponent within six feet.

Since when is six feet a requirement for LGP?

it isn't. They messed up.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They clearly did not use the entire wording of the rule when stating the 6 feet reference.

Would it ever make a practical difference? If the guarding player were farther away, what are the chances a block/charge determination would ever be needed?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Would it ever make a practical difference? If the guarding player were farther away, what are the chances a block/charge determination would ever be needed?

Actually, it is. There are several block-charge plays that start with the defender in LGP or establish LGP more than 6 feet away, like a fast break. The reference is completely incorrect and not how the rule even reads. Because you have to first establish LGP and you have to maintain it. Requiring 6 feet would change the application of the rule totally.

Peace

[BillyMac]

There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded.

Doesn't this only apply to a closely guarded five second count and is not really relevant to legal guarding position and a block/charge call?

In other words, regarding block/charge, it's legal guarding position, not legal closely guarded position.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am not going to comment one the "six feet" mistake because it has been adequately covered in Thread so far: It is most likely an editing/typo mistake, at least I hope so.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Why was the "bird dog" signal in the NBC (boys'/girls' H.S. and men's college) Officials Manual in the first place?

Until the either the late 1970s (or early 1980s; for reasons of which only BillyMac knows, I will not have access to The Attic until mid-June so any dates that I list are from the deep recesses of my mind, but I am betting on the late 1970s when the NBC split into the NFHS and NCAA Men's Rules Committees.) the NBC Rules required the Fouler to raise his/her hand an arm's length above his/her shoulder so that everyone present would know who had committed the Foul. To facilitate this Player procedure, the Official upon judging that a PF had been committed, would simultaneously sound his/her whistle, give the Stop Clock Signal, move toward the Fouler while pointing toward the Fouler's hip, and announcing the Color and Number of the Fouler.

Failure of the Fouler to raise his arm/hand was as TF for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. For the last few or so years that the Arm/Hand Raising Rule was finally removed from the Rules it was a TF for Unsportsmanlike Conduct to raise both Arms/Hands because, while the Rules had not explicitly prohibited the raising of both arms/hands Players were starting to raise both to show displeasure in the Officials Call.

And we know that the NFHS Officials Manual still requires a "bird dog" in the vast majority of PFs. If my memory serves me correct, the NCAA Women's Rules Committee (Women's CCA Manual) eliminated the "bird dog" before the NCAA Men's Rules Committee (Men's CCA Manual) did sometime in the late 1980s (or early 1990s; I am betting on the early 1980s.).

And I admit that when the Women's CCA Manual eliminated I still "bird dogged" in NFHS games while not "bird dogging" in NCAA Women's games, but the time I also started officiated NCAA Men's Div. III jr. varsity and NJCAA Men's games in the early 1990s I stopped "bird dogging" in all of my games at all levels, meaning, like the late Lou Costello: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXMHaYoc9J8

So ends today's history lesson.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Until the either the late 1970s (or early 1980s; for reasons of which only BillyMac knows ... the NBC Rules required the Fouler to raise his/her hand an arm's length above his/her shoulder so that everyone present would know who had committed the Foul ... Failure of the Fouler to raise his arm/hand was as TF for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. For the last few or so years that the Arm/Hand Raising Rule was finally removed from the Rules.

Ask, and it shall be given you. (Matthew 7:7)

1963-64 Players who are called for personal fouls are asked to raise their arms to make it easier for the scorer to identify who committed the foul (probably NCAA and/or NBA).
1972 Player who fouls must raise hand (NFHS Handbook)
1974 Fouling player not required to raise hand (NFHS Handbook).
1974-75 The NCAA no longer requires players to raise their hand if called for a foul.
1977-78 The NCAA “strongly recommends” that players called for a foul raise their hand.

Today, players will occasionally voluntarily raise a hand to:

Acknowledge the foul to indicate the call was justified. This has the added benefit of building rapport with the officiating crew.

Acknowledge the foul to indicate it was a purposeful (not intentional) act. This type of foul occurs to stop a fast break, to prevent a highly probable basket (like a breakaway layup), or to put a poor free throw shooter on the line.

Take a call away from a teammate who has more fouls. This occurs when more than one player is involved or in close proximity to an offending player.

So ends today's history lesson.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Ask, and it shall be given you. (Matthew 7:7)

1963-64 Players who are called for personal fouls are asked to raise their arms to make it easier for the scorer to identify who committed the foul (probably NCAA and/or NBA).
1972 Player who fouls must raise hand (NFHS Handbook)
1974 Fouling player not required to raise hand (NFHS Handbook).
1974-75 The NCAA no longer requires players to raise their hand if called for a foul.
1977-78 The NCAA “strongly recommends” that players called for a foul raise their hand.

Today, players will occasionally voluntarily raise a hand to:

Acknowledge the foul to indicate the call was justified. This has the added benefit of building rapport with the officiating crew.

Acknowledge the foul to indicate it was a purposeful (not intentional) act. This type of foul occurs to stop a fast break, to prevent a highly probable basket (like a breakaway layup), or to put a poor free throw shooter on the line.

Take a call away from a teammate who has more fouls. This occurs when more than one player is involved or in close proximity to an offending player.

So ends today's history lesson.

Billy:

Thank you for becoming my research assistant, LOL!

MTD, Sr.