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-   -   NCAA-M Summer Teaching Points/Mechanic Change (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105056-ncaa-m-summer-teaching-points-mechanic-change.html)

Freddy Wed Apr 08, 2020 07:29pm

Is This What It's All About?
 
I had trouble identifying the relevance of this discussion, maybe because I don't do NCAA. But I remember one call that happened late this past season that I made a clip of. This is a very good official who, though he's registered as a high school referee, does mostly NCAA-M; I was fortunate to get him to fill in the day before for an injured partner. Solid official, no doubt. This particular ruling was obviously intended to be a block but was just as obviously misinterpreted by most others involved.
Does this illustrate what all this is all about? (I don't recall this topic being an issue with NFHS-oriented officials)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OpLhXx6N8jM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SC Official Wed Apr 08, 2020 08:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 1038507)
I had trouble identifying the relevance of this discussion, maybe because I don't do NCAA. But I remember one call that happened late this past season that I made a clip of. This is a very good official who, though he's registered as a high school referee, does mostly NCAA-M; I was fortunate to get him to fill in the day before for an injured partner. Solid official, no doubt. This particular ruling was obviously intended to be a block but was just as obviously misinterpreted by most others involved.
Does this illustrate what all this is all about? (I don't recall this topic being an issue with NFHS-oriented officials)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OpLhXx6N8jM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If he had given a preliminary blocking signal like 99.9% of officials do on block/charge plays there would have been no confusion.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Apr 08, 2020 08:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakeas2 (Post 1038485)
I know that the punch wasn't the approved mechanic, but to me it is a much stronger signal. Some instances in a game need a strong emphatic call. You can do that with the block, but without using a punch, I'm not sure a hand behind the head gives that strong look on a PCF. Just my opinion. Curious what others think?


If you are not giving yourself a headache by hitting the back of your head then you aren't doing correctly, 🤣!

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac Thu Apr 09, 2020 05:10am

Holding ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1038510)
If he had given a preliminary blocking signal like 99.9% of officials do on block/charge plays there would have been no confusion.

He actually reported a holding foul.

Looks like he reported a two digit (maybe 14) offender, which would have been the player to the shooter's right, rather than the single digit (maybe 3) player in front of the shooter (who took the brunt of the shooter's forward momentum and ended up on the floor).

BillyMac Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:16am

Mutt And Jeff ... ...
 
(Young'uns: Look it up on the Google.)

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.N...=0&w=300&h=300

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1038504)
It's my favorite signal. The most exciting and best call in basketball, maybe the most exciting and best call in all of sports. It's poetry in motion. It doesn't get any better than that. I can wax on for a lot longer.

Of course, that all goes down the toilet if I'm the lead (Mutt) and I don't see the ball go in my peripheral vision, and my partner (Jeff) doesn't realize that I didn't see the ball go in (or doesn't bother to look for it).

Worked with a rookie this past season who didn't know if the ball was inflated or stuffed. I made it all the way to the reporting area having no idea that the ball went in. Of course I didn't count the basket and reported two free throws.

Offended coach yelled, "Why didn't the basket count?". Went back to my partner, "Did the ball go in the basket?". Partner replied "I don't know". Went back to the table, asked them, and they replied that the ball went in.

If there had been a hole in the court, I would have crawled into it.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.G...=0&w=249&h=167

Nevadaref Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 1038507)
I had trouble identifying the relevance of this discussion, maybe because I don't do NCAA. But I remember one call that happened late this past season that I made a clip of. This is a very good official who, though he's registered as a high school referee, does mostly NCAA-M; I was fortunate to get him to fill in the day before for an injured partner. Solid official, no doubt. This particular ruling was obviously intended to be a block but was just as obviously misinterpreted by most others involved.
Does this illustrate what all this is all about? (I don't recall this topic being an issue with NFHS-oriented officials)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OpLhXx6N8jM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Do you also go opposite table after reporting a foul in your area?

Freddy Thu Apr 09, 2020 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1038518)
Do you also go opposite table after reporting a foul in your area?

Yes, beginning this past season. Back to what it was in 2006 or so.

Remington Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:13am

Jay Bilas is smiling ear to ear upon this decision. His lack of knowledge on LGP and what is block vs charge will drive me crazy forever. I will be paraphrasing my statement, but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal. I know I am preaching to the crowd here, but I can't help but wonder if his clamoring didn't get into the head of JD.

SC Official Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remington (Post 1038522)
Jay Bilas is smiling ear to ear upon this decision. His lack of knowledge on LGP and what is block vs charge will drive me crazy forever. I will be paraphrasing my statement, but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal. I know I am preaching to the crowd here, but I can't help but wonder if his clamoring didn't get into the head of JD.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Bilas had zero to do with this.

And the punch has never been the approved PCF signal. I see many theatrical PCF mechanics that don't even involve a punch.

BillyMac Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:58pm

There's No Business Like Show Business (Ethel Merman, 1946) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1038523)
... theatrical ...

Great description of many player control foul signals.

http://broadwayscene.com/wp-content/...l1-228x300.jpg

Of course, my "count it and one" signal is also theatrical, but it's classy Broadway theatrical, and it's by the script, as Irving Berlin, Richard Rodgers, and Oscar Hammerstein intended.

JRutledge Sun Apr 12, 2020 04:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remington (Post 1038522)
Jay Bilas is smiling ear to ear upon this decision. His lack of knowledge on LGP and what is block vs charge will drive me crazy forever. I will be paraphrasing my statement, but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal. I know I am preaching to the crowd here, but I can't help but wonder if his clamoring didn't get into the head of JD.

Well JD does not make the decision, the CCA Committee does. I also doubt they care what Bilas does as well. Bilas gets mocked in many conversations by those that are in officiating circles that make decisions.

Peace

Camron Rust Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1038525)
Well JD does not make the decision, the CCA Committee does. I also doubt they care what Bilas does as well. Bilas gets mocked in many conversations by those that are in officiating circles that make decisions.

Peace

Do you really think the CCA gets into mechanics?

Raymond Mon Apr 13, 2020 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1038526)
Do you really think the CCA gets into mechanics?

It is called the CCA Men's Basketball Officiating Manual and it is not available through the NCAA Arbiter publications link, so who should we put the onus on? JD Collins is one of 10 members of the CCA Mechanics Manual Committee, which produces the manual.

bucky Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remington (Post 1038522)
...but many times he has said if the NCAA would get rid of the punch signal, there would be far fewer charge calls because officials like to show off making the signal

Someone please cue Dee Kantner.

Camron Rust Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1038527)
It is called the CCA Men's Basketball Officiating Manual and it is not available through the NCAA Arbiter publications link, so who should we put the onus on? JD Collins is one of 10 members of the CCA Mechanics Manual Committee, which produces the manual.

Fair enough, but I'm guessing it isn't the coaches, AD's, or conference commissioners that actually have much, if any, say in mechanics. They probably rubber stamp what some official or set of officials propose in that area.


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