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-   -   Hair Pull-Missed call video (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104981-hair-pull-missed-call-video.html)

dabard Wed Feb 12, 2020 01:31pm

Hair Pull-Missed call video
 
https://www.wtol.com/article/news/lo...c-cc56b9adb3fc

Raymond Wed Feb 12, 2020 04:02pm

Only way the Trail misses this is if he is following the flight of the ball instead of officiating the shooter up and down.

BryanV21 Wed Feb 12, 2020 04:06pm

Assuming I was on the floor and saw this play...

I would obviously call the foul, and then get together with one or both of my partners to discuss what happened and possibly upgrading it from a common foul. My initial reaction when seeing it is this is a fighting act, and I'm calling a flagrant technical and ejecting the player from the game.

I'm curious what others think.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Feb 12, 2020 04:31pm

There has been much discussion about this play on a couple of Facebook groups. This game was played in the OhioHSAA NW District in Bellevue H.S. approximately 70 miles east of Toledo, and I do not know who were the Game Officials.

Here is my observation and it is the same as the first time I saw the video in Facebook:

1) From the very start of the Throw-in the T is not in proper position. His starting point should have been no further away from the End Line that the FT Line Extended. I do not like throwing the T under the bus but he has no excuse for being so far away from the FT Line Extended.

2) Once W2 received the Throw-in Pass from W1 the T never closed down toward W2. It appears that he follows the Ball to the Basket instead of staying with the play. Even more puzzling is that it appears that he saw W2's pull B2 to the floor by her hair and choose to do nothing by the fact that he gave a "safe signal".

3) What do I have? The Ball was Live when W2 grabbed B2 by her hair and forcefully pulled her to the floor. I have a FPF charged to W2. W2 is disqualified from the Game. B2 is awarded two FTs and then Team B is awarded a Designated Spot Throw-in nearest the Spot of W2's PF.


As one see from the WTOL article that the OhioHSAA has become involved. I read in another article the W2 is the daughter of Team W's HC and has a basketball scholarship to a MAC school; I do not know how true that report is. I do not know what kind of action that the OhioHSAA can or will take with the T but I would not want to be in his shoes.

MTD, Sr.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Feb 12, 2020 04:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 1037542)
Assuming I was on the floor and saw this play...

I would obviously call the foul, and then get together with one or both of my partners to discuss what happened and possibly upgrading it from a common foul. My initial reaction when seeing it is this is a fighting act, and I'm calling a flagrant technical and ejecting the player from the game.

I'm curious what others think.


Bryan:

The Ball was Live. The Foul would be a Flagrant Personal Foul.

MTD, Sr.

BryanV21 Wed Feb 12, 2020 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1037544)
Bryan:

The Ball was Live. The Foul would be a Flagrant Personal Foul.

MTD, Sr.

Dammit. :(

JRutledge Wed Feb 12, 2020 05:15pm

I am going to be honest, I have no idea what happened here. If you did not tell me this was a hair pull, I would have thought the player slipped. The angle is so far away and out of position.

But if that is what happened, get rid of this player. Flagrant foul and move on. But the Trail is so far away he has no idea what happened. So not surprised this was missed.

Peace

crosscountry55 Wed Feb 12, 2020 05:24pm

Going to be honest. Iím pretty good at staying with the shooter. But not forever. Onceís thereís no immediate contact, I turn my attention to rebounding action. I would hope my positioning would put me in a position to see both rebounding and this foul, but Iíd be lying if I was sure Iíd stay connected long enough to see this directly.

This was a very dirty play, almost as if this player had a grasp on the point when officials usually shift their attention to the basket. Of course our Trail in this video lost focus immediately, but even if they hadnít, thereís a chance this still gets missed.


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Camron Rust Wed Feb 12, 2020 07:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1037546)
I am going to be honest, I have no idea what happened here. If you did not tell me this was a hair pull, I would have thought the player slipped. The angle is so far away and out of position.

But if that is what happened, get rid of this player. Flagrant foul and move on. But the Trail is so far away he has no idea what happened. So not surprised this was missed.

Peace

Agree. I'm not sure how anyone can really be sure of what happened in that video. Perhaps the original was much better quality.

The reaction of the player that went down was consistent with being grabbed and pulled/thrown to the floor, but I can't make any other claim about what occurred.

As for the T's position, even if he were 5 feet closer, I think he still misses due to the angle. I don't think his distance really had anything to do with it. It was a very weird situation that seemed to come out of nowhere.

JRutledge Wed Feb 12, 2020 07:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1037550)

As for the T's position, even if he were 5 feet closer, I think he still misses due to the angle. I don't think his distance really had anything to do with it. It was a very weird situation that seemed to come out of nowhere.

He is looking behind the player. So if he had a more open look, then it might have been a better chance at picking up this play.

I am liking the suggestion that you see at other levels to come down and under the shooter, instead of behind the shooter. The game has changed, we should adjust.

Peace

Camron Rust Wed Feb 12, 2020 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1037551)
He is looking behind the player. So if he had a more open look, then it might have been a better chance at picking up this play.

I am liking the suggestion that you see at other levels to come down and under the shooter, instead of behind the shooter. The game has changed, we should adjust.

Peace

Agree....he could have been in a better position, but closer, as some suggested, wouldn't have done it. He would have just had a closer closed look. He would have needed to either be below, as you suggest, or more into the court looking between.

Raymond Wed Feb 12, 2020 09:04pm

I referee a low Trail, and I don't leave the shooter if the defender comes that close. I've called a few common fouls on defenders after the shooter has landed. So I'm quite confident I would have seen this foul based on the mechanics I use.

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crosscountry55 Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:25pm

Hair Pull-Missed call video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1037551)
I am liking the suggestion that you see at other levels to come down and under the shooter, instead of behind the shooter. The game has changed, we should adjust.


100% agree and have been doing this for about five years now. Totally ok to work very low as trail if youíre outside the ball. Better to open low outside then to open high inside. I love the looks I get down there.



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MattReferee Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:30pm

Actually found a much better video that shows this started WAY before the end line inbounds..just prior to this as subs are being beckoned the white jersey girl with hands by her side elbows the girl that she eventually yanked down as players are moving around!! Where are the officials thru this time as this takes place in the paint? Regardless this is a violent and volatile play as she clearly yanks,pulls,jerks girl down !!! Now let me make it clear EJECTION NO QUESTIONS ASKED!! This just didnít manifest itself during this short period

crosscountry55 Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattReferee (Post 1037556)
Actually found a much better video that shows this started WAY before the end line inbounds.


Thanks for not sharing.



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