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-   -   Hair Pull-Missed call video (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104981-hair-pull-missed-call-video.html)

MOVBlue Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:59am

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6131870136001#sp=show-clips

I googled for other clips and this one is a pretty clear clip (good focus).

It almost looks like the shooter actually grabs a tied headband because the girls hair can be seen in what looks to be a pony tail that flops away as she is pulled to the floor. Either way doesn't matter in that clip she is clearly jerked to the floor from something on her head being pulled and it is blatantly flagrant.

I would like to see extended video of the elbow mentioned earlier but couldn't find it.

Raymond Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOVBlue (Post 1037573)
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6131870136001#sp=show-clips

I googled for other clips and this one is a pretty clear clip (good focus).

It almost looks like the shooter actually grabs a tied headband because the girls hair can be seen in what looks to be a pony tail that flops away as she is pulled to the floor. Either way doesn't matter in that clip she is clearly jerked to the floor from something on her head being pulled and it is blatantly flagrant.

I would like to see extended video of the elbow mentioned earlier but couldn't find it.

That was flagrant and premeditated. She did clearly grab the headband and yank her down.

Pantherdreams Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:58pm

There's a lot going on there in a quick time frame.

There's a late, unneeded illegal box out on the shooter who then retaliates and grabs the base of ponytail/hair and flings opponent to ground.

If the crowd is to be believed there was some build towards this.

Call the foul on the box out, call the flagrant foul on the toss down. Eject the tosser.

bucky Sat Feb 15, 2020 04:23pm

I hear someone yell "number 14 just shoulder checked.." and 14 is the one who yanks. I did not feel there was an illegal box out on shot but whatever...

Point is, as trail official, stay with shooter/play. Close in/down on shots, not the opposite.

Camron Rust Sat Feb 15, 2020 06:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1037628)
Point is, as trail official, stay with shooter/play.

How long? The trail also has rebounding duties and the ball was being rebounded by then. Which place is more likely to need coverage? I'd say rebounding. Once the shot has hit the rim, I'm turning my attention to that.

BillyMac Sat Feb 15, 2020 06:45pm

Easier Done In A Three Person Game ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1037631)
The trail also as rebounding duties and the ball was being rebounded by then. Which place is more likely to need coverage? I'd say rebounding.

Agree. Good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1037628)
Point is, as trail official, stay with shooter/play.

For as long as reasonably possible in a two person game, especially a boys game (goaltending/basket interference).

https://live.staticflickr.com/3775/1...8029f778_m.jpg

Raymond Sat Feb 15, 2020 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1037632)
Agree. Good point.



For as long as reasonably possible in a two person game, especially a boys game (goaltending/basket interference).

https://live.staticflickr.com/3775/1...8029f778_m.jpg

This wasn't a 2-person game. He needs to stay with the active matchup in his primary. Other 2 officials can handle rebounding.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

BillyMac Sun Feb 16, 2020 01:52pm

Disadvantaged ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1037634)
This wasn't a 2-person game.

I know, and I also know that it wasn't a boys game, I just wanted to put in good word for those of us who are disadvantaged to almost always work in a two person system, where the lead is never going to catch goaltending, or basket interference, and often needs help with rebounding fouls.

Even with my lack of three person experience, I am fully aware that the three person game is a completely different story.

Raymond Sun Feb 16, 2020 02:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1037656)
I know, and I also know that it wasn't a boys game, I just wanted to put in good word for those of us who are disadvantaged to almost always work in a two person system, where the lead is never going to catch goaltending, or basket interference, and often needs help with rebounding fouls.

Even with my lack of three person experience, I know that the three person game is a completely different story.

Even in a two-man game, the first priority is to take the shooter up and down and make sure there's no illegal contact associated.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Camron Rust Sun Feb 16, 2020 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1037657)
Even in a two-man game, the first priority is to take the shooter up and down and make sure there's no illegal contact associated.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

True, but after the shooter is down and the shot is over, you have to move on at some point....other action and matchups become higher priority.

Raymond Sun Feb 16, 2020 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1037659)
True, but after the shooter is down and the shot is over, you have to move on at some point....other action and matchups become higher priority.

If I have a defender who may take out a shooter after they become grounded or there has been contention between the two players, I'm watching for that.

I rather miss a run-of-the-mill rebounding foul than miss a non-basketball play that ends up on YouTube.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

BillyMac Sun Feb 16, 2020 03:52pm

Protect The Shooter ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1037657)
Even in a two-man game, the first priority is to take the shooter up and down and make sure there's no illegal contact associated.

"Protect the shooter" (and in this odd case, the defender).

At some point after the shot is released and the shooter lands, the trail has to start looking for other things (goaltending, basket interference, rebounding fouls).

But at what point?

Ay, there’s the rub!

(Yes, we have Shakespeare's Hamlet quoted on The Forum. My high school English teacher, Mr Baumgartner, would be quite proud of me.)

BillyMac Sun Feb 16, 2020 03:55pm

Official's Worst Nightmare ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1037660)
... miss a non-basketball play that ends up on YouTube.

How true.

Fifteen seconds of fame that none of us want.

With everybody's grandmother having a high quality video camera in their cellphone, everything that we do can eventually end up on the YouTube, or on the Twitter, or on the Instagram (not sure what that is).

I often end my pregame with, "Let's not screw up".

Sometimes I substitute another word for "screw".

bucky Sun Feb 16, 2020 05:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1037631)
How long? The trail also has rebounding duties and the ball was being rebounded by then. Which place is more likely to need coverage? I'd say rebounding. Once the shot has hit the rim, I'm turning my attention to that.

For as long as it is necessary. Trail may have rebounding duties but I would say that, as a general statement, they fall within the Trails PCA. IOW, if the ball rebounds on C's side, and there are only 2 players there, I, as Trail, am not even thinking about watching those two players. That area is likely to need more coverage and the C can get that. T can turn their attention to rebounding if it is applicable to their area. I think Raymond's points were valid. In the video after the shot, there were 4 players that I would consider to be next to each other. Two opponents were near the hoop and then the shooter/defender. There was plenty of space between all other players, especially in the Trails PCA. That space negates attention. Soooo... T should have been right there in closed down position and staying there with those two players until transition begins. Then, the new T takes over watching those players. Again, bottom line is that T began waaay too far away from the play and lost sight of the two primary players in his area.

BillyMac Sun Feb 16, 2020 05:38pm

The Buck Stops Here ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1037668)
For as long as it is necessary. Trail may have rebounding duties ...

Don't forget about the goaltending and basket interference duties in a two person boys high school game.

I agree with Raymond. First priority is the shooter/defender matchup, things can happen even after the shooter lands (illegal displacement box out is not uncommon).

When to look away from the shooter/defender matchup?

We get paid the big bucks because we know when to look for other things.


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