The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 01:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 21
Hair Pull-Missed call video

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/lo...c-cc56b9adb3fc
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 04:02pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,649
Only way the Trail misses this is if he is following the flight of the ball instead of officiating the shooter up and down.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 04:06pm
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,466
Assuming I was on the floor and saw this play...

I would obviously call the foul, and then get together with one or both of my partners to discuss what happened and possibly upgrading it from a common foul. My initial reaction when seeing it is this is a fighting act, and I'm calling a flagrant technical and ejecting the player from the game.

I'm curious what others think.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 04:31pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,756
There has been much discussion about this play on a couple of Facebook groups. This game was played in the OhioHSAA NW District in Bellevue H.S. approximately 70 miles east of Toledo, and I do not know who were the Game Officials.

Here is my observation and it is the same as the first time I saw the video in Facebook:

1) From the very start of the Throw-in the T is not in proper position. His starting point should have been no further away from the End Line that the FT Line Extended. I do not like throwing the T under the bus but he has no excuse for being so far away from the FT Line Extended.

2) Once W2 received the Throw-in Pass from W1 the T never closed down toward W2. It appears that he follows the Ball to the Basket instead of staying with the play. Even more puzzling is that it appears that he saw W2's pull B2 to the floor by her hair and choose to do nothing by the fact that he gave a "safe signal".

3) What do I have? The Ball was Live when W2 grabbed B2 by her hair and forcefully pulled her to the floor. I have a FPF charged to W2. W2 is disqualified from the Game. B2 is awarded two FTs and then Team B is awarded a Designated Spot Throw-in nearest the Spot of W2's PF.


As one see from the WTOL article that the OhioHSAA has become involved. I read in another article the W2 is the daughter of Team W's HC and has a basketball scholarship to a MAC school; I do not know how true that report is. I do not know what kind of action that the OhioHSAA can or will take with the T but I would not want to be in his shoes.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio

Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Wed Feb 12, 2020 at 04:33pm. Reason: Corrected Penalty.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 04:33pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Assuming I was on the floor and saw this play...

I would obviously call the foul, and then get together with one or both of my partners to discuss what happened and possibly upgrading it from a common foul. My initial reaction when seeing it is this is a fighting act, and I'm calling a flagrant technical and ejecting the player from the game.

I'm curious what others think.

Bryan:

The Ball was Live. The Foul would be a Flagrant Personal Foul.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 04:58pm
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Bryan:

The Ball was Live. The Foul would be a Flagrant Personal Foul.

MTD, Sr.
Dammit.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 05:15pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,085
I am going to be honest, I have no idea what happened here. If you did not tell me this was a hair pull, I would have thought the player slipped. The angle is so far away and out of position.

But if that is what happened, get rid of this player. Flagrant foul and move on. But the Trail is so far away he has no idea what happened. So not surprised this was missed.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 05:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,521
Going to be honest. I’m pretty good at staying with the shooter. But not forever. Once’s there’s no immediate contact, I turn my attention to rebounding action. I would hope my positioning would put me in a position to see both rebounding and this foul, but I’d be lying if I was sure I’d stay connected long enough to see this directly.

This was a very dirty play, almost as if this player had a grasp on the point when officials usually shift their attention to the basket. Of course our Trail in this video lost focus immediately, but even if they hadn’t, there’s a chance this still gets missed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 07:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am going to be honest, I have no idea what happened here. If you did not tell me this was a hair pull, I would have thought the player slipped. The angle is so far away and out of position.

But if that is what happened, get rid of this player. Flagrant foul and move on. But the Trail is so far away he has no idea what happened. So not surprised this was missed.

Peace
Agree. I'm not sure how anyone can really be sure of what happened in that video. Perhaps the original was much better quality.

The reaction of the player that went down was consistent with being grabbed and pulled/thrown to the floor, but I can't make any other claim about what occurred.

As for the T's position, even if he were 5 feet closer, I think he still misses due to the angle. I don't think his distance really had anything to do with it. It was a very weird situation that seemed to come out of nowhere.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 07:44pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post

As for the T's position, even if he were 5 feet closer, I think he still misses due to the angle. I don't think his distance really had anything to do with it. It was a very weird situation that seemed to come out of nowhere.
He is looking behind the player. So if he had a more open look, then it might have been a better chance at picking up this play.

I am liking the suggestion that you see at other levels to come down and under the shooter, instead of behind the shooter. The game has changed, we should adjust.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 08:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
He is looking behind the player. So if he had a more open look, then it might have been a better chance at picking up this play.

I am liking the suggestion that you see at other levels to come down and under the shooter, instead of behind the shooter. The game has changed, we should adjust.

Peace
Agree....he could have been in a better position, but closer, as some suggested, wouldn't have done it. He would have just had a closer closed look. He would have needed to either be below, as you suggest, or more into the court looking between.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 09:04pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,649
I referee a low Trail, and I don't leave the shooter if the defender comes that close. I've called a few common fouls on defenders after the shooter has landed. So I'm quite confident I would have seen this foul based on the mechanics I use.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 10:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,521
Hair Pull-Missed call video

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am liking the suggestion that you see at other levels to come down and under the shooter, instead of behind the shooter. The game has changed, we should adjust.

100% agree and have been doing this for about five years now. Totally ok to work very low as trail if you’re outside the ball. Better to open low outside then to open high inside. I love the looks I get down there.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 10:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 47
Actually found a much better video that shows this started WAY before the end line inbounds..just prior to this as subs are being beckoned the white jersey girl with hands by her side elbows the girl that she eventually yanked down as players are moving around!! Where are the officials thru this time as this takes place in the paint? Regardless this is a violent and volatile play as she clearly yanks,pulls,jerks girl down !!! Now let me make it clear EJECTION NO QUESTIONS ASKED!! This just didn’t manifest itself during this short period
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 12, 2020, 10:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattReferee View Post
Actually found a much better video that shows this started WAY before the end line inbounds.

Thanks for not sharing.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Missed Foul- (Video Request) VaTerp Basketball 33 Tue Mar 14, 2017 09:41pm
Missed Tag: Whose Call? Manny A Softball 4 Tue Apr 09, 2013 06:22pm
Officials facial hair and hair style NEohioref Basketball 82 Fri Apr 02, 2010 07:44am
Should You Lie To Fix A Missed Call? Blue37 Baseball 19 Sat Jul 03, 2004 03:02pm
Missed a call. What would you have done? abergman Baseball 17 Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:24am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1