back court?

[bbman]

Fed rules:
A1 inbounds from under his own basket. Inbound pass on the fly is tipped by A2 (who is in front court), ball then goes back court and is retrieved by A2. (No other players involved.)
Back court or not?
Thanks in advance.

[bas2456]

Was player or team control ever established in the front court?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Was player or team control ever established in the front court?

Almost the right question. There need not ever be player control in the FC in order to have a backcourt violation, only team control.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Almost the right question. There need not ever be player control in the FC in order to have a backcourt violation, only team control.

True in many situations. In this situation "team control" in the FC is dependent on the player first having player control in the FC, which did not happen. Bas2456's question whether A2 had established PC on the throw in pass in the FC is relevant in this situation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Was player or team control ever established in the front court?

Yes. A had TC during the throw-in and touched the ball in the FC.

That, however, doesn't make it a BC violation.

Was there PC inbounds? After or simultaneous with that, did the ball have FC status?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bbman

Fed rules:
A1 inbounds from under his own basket. Inbound pass on the fly is tipped by A2 (who is in front court), ball then goes back court and is retrieved by A2. (No other players involved.)
Back court or not?
Thanks in advance.

NFHS Basketball 2017-18 Interpretations

SITUATION 12: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1’s pass to A2, who is in the frontcourt standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2’s hand and goes into Team A’s backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in Team A’s backcourt. RULING: Legal. There is no backcourt violation since player control and team control had not yet been established in Team A’s frontcourt before the ball went into Team A’s backcourt. The throw-in ends when A2 legally touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A2 gains control in his/her backcourt. (4-12-2, 9-9)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

NFHS Basketball 2017-18 Interpretations
SITUATION 12: A1 has the ball for an end-line throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1’s pass to A2, who is in the frontcourt standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2’s hand and goes into Team A’s backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in Team A’s backcourt. RULING: Legal. There is no backcourt violation since player control and team control had not yet been established in Team A’s frontcourt before the ball went into Team A’s backcourt. The throw-in ends when A2 legally touches the ball, but the backcourt count does not start until A2 gains control in his/her backcourt. (4-12-2, 9-9)

Nice citation Nevadaref.

During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt, or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not backcourt violations.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by billyu2

True in many situations. In this situation "team control" in the FC is dependent on the player first having player control in the FC, which did not happen. Bas2456's question whether A2 had established PC on the throw in pass in the FC is relevant in this situation.

It is a lot easier to use universal concepts rather than trying to remember 100 scenarios.

1. Is there team control inbounds (started by player control inbounds)?
2. Does the ball then have/gain FC status?
3. Is team A the last to touch BEFORE it returns to the BC?
4. Is team A the first to touch AFTER it returns to the BC?

No to any question means it is not a violation.

There are 3 listed exceptions that also make it no, but those need not be considered unless the above questions are all yes.

Adding that...

5. Was team control established by airborne player who lands with one or both feet in the backcourt from a jump ball, steal, or on a throwin?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Was team control established by airborne player who lands with one or both feet in the backcourt from a rebound, steal, or on a throwin?

During a throwin, or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his, or her, frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one, or both, feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing, and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt, or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations.

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is a lot easier to use universal concepts rather than trying to remember 100 scenarios.

5. Was team control established by airborne player who lands with one or both feet in the backcourt from a rebound, steal, or on a throwin?

Rebound no longer applies after the NFHS changed the wording of the rule several years ago. Replace it with jump ball and your #5 meets the current rules.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice citation Nevadaref.



During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt, or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not backcourt violations.

I wish people would quit referring to the location of the throw-in, it has absolutely nothing to do with the pertinent facts of the play.

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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Rebound no longer applies after the NFHS changed the wording of the rule several years ago. Replace it with jump ball and your #5 meets the current rules.

You are correct....although, I wonder if they really intended to make that change.

I would love to see that rule changed to say that a player establishing team control is excepted from the backcourt rule until both feet are down, whether entirely airborne or with only one foot down.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bbman

A1 inbounds from under his own basket. Inbound pass on the fly is tipped by A2 (who is in front court), ball then goes back court and is retrieved by A2.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Was team control established by airborne player who lands with one or both feet in the backcourt from a jump ball, steal, or on a throwin?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

During a throwin, or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his, or her, frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one, or both, feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing, and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt, or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations.

Originally Posted by Raymond

I wish people would quit referring to the locationof the throw-in, it has absolutely nothing to do with the pertinent facts of the play.

I was expounding upon bbman and Camron Rust's posts.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was expounding upon bbman and Camron Rust's posts.

I know. I think the inclusion of that information contributes to the confusion. My first response always is the throw-in location is irrelevant to any rulings.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

… the throw-in location is irrelevant to any rulings.

While all good officials know that, ignorant fans are more likely to comment when a throwin comes from the frontcourt endline (deflected or not) than when it comes from the frontcourt sideline (deflected or not). Many parent fans have seen their kids play in elementary school age recreation leagues where no back court pressure is allowed and coaches instruct their players, on frontcourt sideline throwins, to inbound the ball into the backcourt to avoid defensive pressure.

This is a public forum, and while we may not have a lot of fan posters, I'm sure that we probably have more than just a few fan observers who end up here after an internet search basketball rule question.

And, unfortunately there are a few officials out there who don't know if the basketball is stuffed or inflated.