Identical Numbers ???

[BillyMac]

The 0 and 00 thread got me thinking, can somebody please remind us in a simple way of all the permutations, penalties, and consequences of identical numbers in the book and/or playing in the game?

I realize that it's a purely academic (probably won't happen in a real game) situation, but I'd like it discussed to make sure that it's clear in my head, I do a lot of midafternoon middle school games and uniform problems do come up occasionally.

Any simple reminders?

After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1, a team is
charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many
infractions of the following are committed (see 10-1-2 Penalty):
e. Having identical numbers on team members and/or players.

A team shall not:
After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1:
e. Have identical numbers on team members and/or players.
Penalized when discovered.

3.2.2 SITUATION B: Three minutes before the game starts, it is discovered: (a) two Team B members have wrong numbers in the scorebook; or (b) two Team B team members are wearing the same number. RULING: In (a), if either or both team member’s number is changed in the scorebook, one technical foul is charged to Team B. If there is no request for change or if neither becomes a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty. In (b), a technical foul is charged to Team B upon discovery of the identical numbers. Only one team member may wear a given number; the other must change to a number not already in use before participating. (10-1-2)

3.3.7 SITUATION A: B1 is directed to leave the game because of excessive blood on his/her uniform jersey. Team B does not have any extra jerseys. (a) The coach asks one of the substitutes to give his/her jersey to B1; or (b) Team A is able to find a jersey which B1 can wear although it is not exactly the same color or style of the Team B jersey. The jersey will, however, clearly identify B1 as a member of Team B and will not be confusing to either team or the officials. RULING: Acceptable procedure in both (a) and (b). In both situations the scorer will make necessary changes in the scorebook without penalty. COMMENT: The spirit and intent of the rule is to do everything possible to allow the player to use a different jersey and return without penalty. However, identical numbers shall not be allowed on the same team.

Is there a penalty if both are listed in the book after the ten minute mark?

Can one play and the other sit on the bench (never to play) with no penalties?

After technical fouls, what happens to these identically numbered players (what can they now "legally" do)?

I'm so confused.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

The technical foul is basically the way to “buy” the necessary correction. Once the error is discovered and requested to make a change to the scorebook, you can change as many jersey numbers on players and in the book with no further technical fouls.

The first caseplay you cited does seem to give conflicting points though. Situation A seems to say that the technical foul can be avoided if the team member with an identical number never enters the game. However, Situation B seems to indicate that if you discover team members on the bench with identical numbers, a technical foul should be assessed.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but generally my pregame procedure for checking the book is to count the number of players warming up on each side and make sure the number of players in the book equals or exceeds the number of players warming up. I also check that numbers listed are legal numbers and there is not a 0 and 00 listed on the same team. I have NEVER and likely NEVER WILL lined up the players and matched them up with what’s in the book.

So to recap, if there is a problem, it’s one technical foul, and then as many changes as may be needed throughout the game may be made with no additional penalties and everyone can play and be happy. Just make sure that each time a change is made, the table is notified, the floor officials are notified, and the opposing coach is notified.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes

The first caseplay you cited does seem to give conflicting points though. Situation A seems to say that the technical foul can be avoided if the team member with an identical number never enters the game. However, Situation B seems to indicate that if you discover team members on the bench with identical numbers, a technical foul should be assessed.

That isn't what I read from situation A. I read it to say that B1 can change to any jersey that will allow B1 to continue. However, if B1 changes to a spare jersey with a number matching someone else already on the team, that creates an illegal situation. It doesn't say so, but the spirit of the comments in that rule suggest the other person must also change to a new number to avoid having duplicates...but that change will be free of penalty.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The question that the younger officials should be asking is why can a Team not have one Player wearing 0 and one Player wearing 00?

The answer to my rhetorical falls in the collective lap of the NCAA Men's and Women's Committees and really has nothing to do with the Scorebok itself. Software was developed that that could be used as electronic score books and the software was such that it could not differentiate between the separate numbers of 0 and 00. And that is why a Team can only have a 0 or a 00 and not both.

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The question that the younger officials should be asking is why can a Team not have one Player wearing 0 and one Player wearing 00?

I think younger officials have a lot more to worry about and question than this.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The question that the younger officials should be asking is why can a Team not have one Player wearing 0 and one Player wearing 00?
...

MTD, Sr.

Because the rule book says so. They have better things to contemplate I would hope.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The question that the younger officials should be asking is why can a Team not have one Player wearing 0 and one Player wearing 00?



The answer to my rhetorical falls in the collective lap of the NCAA Men's and Women's Committees and really has nothing to do with the Scorebok itself. Software was developed that that could be used as electronic score books and the software was such that it could not differentiate between the separate numbers of 0 and 00. And that is why a Team can only have a 0 or a 00 and not both.



MTD, Sr.

I half wonder why 00 was ever permitted in the first place. It’s not like the software could distinguish between 01 and 1 any better than it could between 00 and 0, yet we don’t see 01 as a legal option like 00 is.

I won’t die unhappy if I never learn the truth, though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think younger officials have a lot more to worry about and question than this.

Bob:

On the contrary I have had both young officials and not so young officials ask why? And I tell them I have posted because that is the reason that the NCAA gave when it adopted the Rule.

Knowledge of the reason(s) for why a Rule was written is a good thing. Lack of knowledge of why a Rule was written in a certain way is not a good thing and gives us such nonsense as the Restricted Area (NCAA Men's and Women's), Lower Defensive Block (NCAA Women's) and Secondary Defender (NFHS, and NCAA Men's and Women's). I am done with my bald old geezer rant.

Have a great weekend.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Knowledge of the reason(s) for why a Rule was written is a good thing.

Agree.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree.

ROFLMTO!!

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Knowledge of the reason(s) for why a Rule was written is a good thing.

I agree. And, I still think that there are 100 other things that the young official should learn before why 0 and 00 are not both allowed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree. And, I still think that there are 100 other things that the young official should learn before why 0 and 00 are not both allowed.

Only a hundred?