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Old Sun Oct 19, 2003, 08:16pm
zac zac is offline
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Question

I'm having trouble finding the rule in the book concerning these questions:
#64 If A1 and B1 create a held-ball situation before the possession arrow is set to begin the game, substitute A6 may enter to replace A1.
#65 It is permissible to withdraw a player before the clock properly starts following his or her substitution into the game.
Thanks for your help!!
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Old Sun Oct 19, 2003, 08:28pm
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Lightbulb This is what I answered.

#64 If A1 and B1 create a held-ball situation before the possession arrow is set to begin the game, substitute A6 may enter to replace A1

False. I could not find any play in the casebook that allowed a substitution for a player that is mandated by rule to jump the ball, which A1 is required to do by rule in this situation. I would assume the same logic as if A1 had to shoot a FT. A6 would not be allowed to sub for A1 unless he/she is was injured. Do not see why this is any different.

#65 It is permissible to withdraw a player before the clock properly starts following his or her substitution into the game.

False.

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Old Sun Oct 19, 2003, 08:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by zac
#64 If A1 and B1 create a held-ball situation before the possession arrow is set to begin the game, substitute A6 may enter to replace A1.
I think that this would only be true if A1 were injured. If A1 is required by rule to jump, then I don't think s/he can sub out, but I can't find a definitive rule on that.

Quote:
#65 It is permissible to withdraw a player before the clock properly starts following his or her substitution into the game.
This is true. There is sometimes confusion b/c if a player has subbed out of the game, then it is not legal for that same player to sub back into the game until the clock has properly started (3-3-4). But a player who comes into the game, may be subbed out at the next dead ball, even if the clock never started.

Hope that helps.
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Old Sun Oct 19, 2003, 10:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by zac
#64 If A1 and B1 create a held-ball situation before the possession arrow is set to begin the game, substitute A6 may enter to replace A1.
I think that this would only be true if A1 were injured. If A1 is required by rule to jump, then I don't think s/he can sub out, but I can't find a definitive rule on that.

Hmmmm! Lemmee see now!

A1 and B1 jump to start the game. One of them legally taps the ball , the clock starts, and the ball now simultaneously goes off of the hands of non-jumpers A2 and B2, and then goes OOB.A2 and B2 will now re-jump, without the possession arrow being set. Why can't a sub now come in for A1?

Or do you rule that A2 and B2 created the held-ball situation,instead of A1 and B1? If you do,it should still be legal to substitute for any of the other 8 players on the floor, except for A2 and B2.

Comments?

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Old Sun Oct 19, 2003, 10:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by zac
#64 If A1 and B1 create a held-ball situation before the possession arrow is set to begin the game, substitute A6 may enter to replace A1.
I think that this would only be true if A1 were injured. If A1 is required by rule to jump, then I don't think s/he can sub out, but I can't find a definitive rule on that.

Hmmmm! Lemmee see now!

A1 and B1 jump to start the game. One of them legally taps the ball , the clock starts, and the ball now simultaneously goes off of the hands of non-jumpers A2 and B2, and then goes OOB.A2 and B2 will now re-jump, without the possession arrow being set. Why can't a sub now come in for A1?

Or do you rule that A2 and B2 created the held-ball situation,instead of A1 and B1? If you do,it should still be legal to substitute for any of the other 8 players on the floor, except for A2 and B2.

Comments?
You're joking, right? Too many penguins in your office?
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Old Mon Oct 20, 2003, 07:48am
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Re: This is what I answered.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
#64 If A1 and B1 create a held-ball situation before the possession arrow is set to begin the game, substitute A6 may enter to replace A1

False. I could not find any play in the casebook that allowed a substitution for a player that is mandated by rule to jump the ball, which A1 is required to do by rule in this situation.
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
I think that this would only be true if A1 were injured. If A1 is required by rule to jump, then I don't think s/he can sub out, but I can't find a definitive rule on that.
The reference is 3-3-2
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Old Mon Oct 20, 2003, 08:48am
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Re: Re: This is what I answered.

Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
The reference is 3-3-2
LOL, you'd think that I would've seen it, since I had to reference 3-3-4 in my initial response. Duh!! Thanks again, Bob!
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Old Mon Oct 20, 2003, 08:55am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by zac
#64 If A1 and B1 create a held-ball situation before the possession arrow is set to begin the game, substitute A6 may enter to replace A1.
Hmmmm! Lemmee see now!

A1 and B1 jump to start the game. One of them legally taps the ball , the clock starts, and the ball now simultaneously goes off of the hands of non-jumpers A2 and B2, and then goes OOB.A2 and B2 will now re-jump, without the possession arrow being set. Why can't a sub now come in for A1?
Apples and oranges, no? Your sitch is fine. The original is not legal. You knew that, obviously. One of us has missed the point; and with my track record lately, I'm pretty sure I know which of us it was.
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