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-   -   3 Person Mechanics Changes 2019 (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104745-3-person-mechanics-changes-2019-a.html)

Matt S. Mon Oct 07, 2019 03:12pm

This
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034759)
Not surprisingly, most of the high school officials I deal with who get hung up on every detail of the Manual are not good play-callers or game managers.

Bingo. Also, NBA officials go tableside on shooting fouls.

JRutledge Mon Oct 07, 2019 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034759)
Not surprisingly, most of the high school officials I deal with who get hung up on every detail of the Manual are not good play-callers or game managers.

They are hung up on terminology that even if you use a term that is not "perfect" they will ask you, "What is a secondary defender?" I swear the FB pages are the most annoying example of this kind of thinking.

Peace

SC Official Mon Oct 07, 2019 05:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1034769)
They are hung up on terminology that even if you use a term that is not "perfect" they will ask you, "What is a secondary defender?" I swear the FB pages are the most annoying example of this kind of thinking.

Peace

And the term "secondary defender" made it to the Manual a few years ago.

JRutledge Mon Oct 07, 2019 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034770)
And the term "secondary defender" made it to the Manual a few years ago.

Well, you cannot tell it to some people, because last season there were people asking what that was and saying it was not in the manual.

Maybe a better description would be when we talk about a player "gathering the ball." You get people here, "Where is that in the rulebook?" I am just glad I do not work with many of those people.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Oct 07, 2019 05:51pm

Best Of The Best ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034759)
Not surprisingly, most of the high school officials I deal with who get hung up on every detail of the Manual are not good play-callers or game managers.

Being good play-callers or game managers and having good mechanics do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Some have the whole package and can do it all.

ilyazhito Mon Oct 07, 2019 07:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034770)
And the term "secondary defender" made it to the Manual a few years ago.

For those of us in IAABO boards, this term was also added to the IAABO manual this year.

SCOfficial, to your point, I strive to be a good playcaller and game manager as well as someone well-versed in the rules and mechanics.

SC Official Mon Oct 07, 2019 09:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1034772)
Being good play-callers or game managers and having good mechanics do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Some have the whole package and can do it all.

I never said they were mutually exclusive.

My point was that all these “purists” get so hung up on being technical that they don’t even bother trying to improve in the things that actually matter.

Also, following the Manual to a T doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with good mechanics. The Manual still says we’re supposed to give a prelim on every foul. Who the hell teaches or actually does this in real life? And some of the most by-the-book officials I know have the worst-looking mechanics. You can tell they’ve never seen themselves on film or practiced in a mirror.

I would take a partner any day who is sharp, crisp, and can manage a game but may occasionally use an “unapproved” yet more descriptive signal to the table (which is another issue with the NFHS altogether) over a pedantic, overly technical partner who doesn’t have much to offer other than book knowledge and telling people when they do something that isn’t 100% by the book.

SC Official Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1034773)
SCOfficial, to your point, I strive to be a good playcaller and game manager as well as someone well-versed in the rules and mechanics.

Being well-versed is different than being pedantic. Officials who only care about what the book says and don’t talk about the more important things are rarely officials I am impressed by or want to work with.

SC Official Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1034771)
Well, you cannot tell it to some people, because last season there were people asking what that was and saying it was not in the manual.

Maybe a better description would be when we talk about a player "gathering the ball." You get people here, "Where is that in the rulebook?" I am just glad I do not work with many of those people.

Peace

Some officials need every single thing spelled out for them.

JRutledge Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034775)
Also, following the Manual to a T doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with good mechanics. The Manual still says we’re supposed to give a prelim on every foul. Who the hell teaches or actually does this in real life? And some of the most by-the-book officials I know have the worst-looking mechanics. You can tell they’ve never seen themselves on film or practiced in a mirror.

Funny you say that. It is what we are supposed to do at by those that run the state, but I rarely see officials do it to a tee. I also agree, that those might have decent signals, but cannot rotate properly or call in their area or give good secondary help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034775)
I would take a partner any day who is sharp, crisp, and can manage a game but may occasionally use an “unapproved” yet more descriptive signal to the table (which is another issue with the NFHS altogether) over a pedantic, overly technical partner who doesn’t have much to offer other than book knowledge and telling people when they do something that isn’t 100% by the book.

This explains most college officials I know. Sorry to those but I love working with guys with solid college experience because of that very fact. They might not be perfect, but they understand the game.

Peace

SC Official Tue Oct 08, 2019 08:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1034778)
Funny you say that. It is what we are supposed to do at by those that run the state, but I rarely see officials do it to a tee. I also agree, that those might have decent signals, but cannot rotate properly or call in their area or give good secondary help.



This explains most college officials I know. Sorry to those but I love working with guys with solid college experience because of that very fact. They might not be perfect, but they understand the game.

The only thing that bothers me is when I'm in a high school pregame with a college official (and I am one of those) and he wants to talk about college stuff, be it rules or just bragging about himself. All that does is confuse non-college officials and makes it feel like you are big-timing. Thankfully this does not happen too much.

Once we get out on the floor, I don't really care if you use a signal that isn't in the back of the book. I care if you get plays right, are a good partner, apply the correct rules and switches, communicate well, handle business, and manage the game.

Raymond Tue Oct 08, 2019 08:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1034772)
Being good play-callers or game managers and having good mechanics do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Some have the whole package and can do it all.

Thanks for the compliment. :D

I pride myself on doing it all, adding in rule book knowledge as well. Rules and mechanics competency are completely under the control of each individual referee.

I started off being a good play-caller and have gotten better by listening to those who have been successful in this profession. Game manager has a few aspects to it (controlling players/dead ball officiating/common sense decision making/fruitful communication with coaches). I'm still working on improving my communications styles w/coaches. I'm still learning in regards to that aspect.

The_Rookie Tue Oct 08, 2019 09:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034777)
Some officials need every single thing spelled out for them.

Many times these are same officials who don’t take responsibility for their calls and performance,.. They blame their instructors and others by saying you said and yea but!

SC Official Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 1034783)
Many times these are same officials who don’t take responsibility for their calls and performance,.. They blame their instructors and others by saying you said and yea but!

I've unfortunately worked with many a high school official who doesn't care about anything other than what the books say.

On the flip side, I can't stand officials with a too-good "I'm not a rules guy" mentality, no matter what level they work. A lot of college officials have piss-poor rules knowledge but get away with it by looking pretty and getting their partners to bail them out.

BillyMac Tue Oct 08, 2019 03:10pm

Read Them The Riot Act ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1034781)
The only thing that bothers me is when I'm in a high school pregame with a college official and he wants to talk about college stuff ... just bragging about himself ... are big-timing ...

Saw this a lot a generation ago, don't see it very often with the younger guys, somebody most have straightened them out.


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