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-   -   UCF/Duke (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104490-ucf-duke.html)

MechanicGuy Mon Mar 25, 2019 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chapmaja (Post 1031603)
I'm going to go a different angle on this. IIRC this seemed very quick that they were already lined up to shot the free throws when CBS came out of the media time out. Is it possible they actually did shoot both FT's and CBS didn't catch the first one on the broadcast?

I don't remember, but I saw someone on FB say the UCF bench was screaming about

dahoopref Mon Mar 25, 2019 09:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1031579)
Play #4:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/w7eYkSwKNfQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

I've seen less contact called an F1 Hook & Hold than what Duke #12 did on UCF #35; that was unfortunately a miss.

UCF #15 does a really bad job on boxing out. The ball bounces outward from the rim. The C and L would have a closed look on any obvious contact by Duke #5.

MechanicGuy Mon Mar 25, 2019 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 1031606)
I've seen less contact called an F1 Hook & Hold than what Duke #12 did on UCF #35; that was unfortunately a miss.

UCF #15 does a really bad job on boxing out. The ball bounces outward from the rim. The C and L would have a closed look on any obvious contact by Duke #5.

I thought that hook would have warranted a second look had anyone noticed it live. But it's very congested and the ball went the other direction, so I don't blame them for not seeing it live.

Rich Mon Mar 25, 2019 09:50am

A lot the BS on the internet is focusing on the nonexistent push on tne offensive rebound. It's simply a horrible box out.


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MechanicGuy Mon Mar 25, 2019 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1031608)
A lot the BS on the internet is focusing on the nonexistent push on tne offensive rebound. It's simply a horrible box out.


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I wouldn't call the push nonexistent, but it was a terrible effort of the UCF player.

Rich Mon Mar 25, 2019 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy (Post 1031609)
I wouldn't call the push nonexistent, but it was a terrible effort of the UCF player.



There was no displacement that comes close to warranting a foul.

The iniial drive, similarly, wasn't enough for a PC foul.


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AremRed Mon Mar 25, 2019 09:52am

Play 1: 50/50 foul but defender jumps first and compromises position. Need faster whistle though.

Play 2: Absolutely not a PC on Zion. CC on grounded RA play on Tacko.

Play 3: CNC. Interesting to note that if Tacko deflects the inbound pass the rule changes and there would no longer be a back court exception. Important for the Trail to pay attention to whether the ball was deflected and also for the Lead to have awareness to call this play if Trail does not.

Play 4: Marginal push in the back on Slot side rebounding, given the time/score in that situation. Could see a hook and hold foul on the Lead side rebounder.

dahoopref Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1031558)
Wow that review for the shot clock is almost impossible.

Peace

Any video of this review?

Pantherdreams Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:12am

1. This is a tough call if you think he was going to finish with his outside hand anyway then contact is marginal let shot blockers be shot blockers. If you fee like he was going up with 2 or lost the ability to finish with his inside hand because a 260+ pound man is on and through his inside arm then I'm ok with it going to the line. Felt late to go with the foul but I'm ok either way.

2. This looks too much like the one he got called for earlier to not get the PC on the first contact. For consistency no call both or get both Official got the rule right with RA and grounded on Tacko.

3. Looks odd but we are all good.

4. It certainly doesn't look like he pushes him hard, but why on the most important rebound of your life would the player jump under the rim and basket to board the ball. Feel like their was displacement there based on what I'm seeing.

johnny d Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:50pm

Play 4 is an obvious hook and hold on white 12. Should have been an F1.

JRutledge Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1031615)
Play 4 is an obvious hook and hold on white 12. Should have been an F1.

I do not think that is a hook and hold at all. #12 is the one that puts his arm under the arm of #35, but they do not lock or even prevent movement of the others. That at most would be a regular foul, but even that is a stretch to me.

I have not seen a single "hook and hold" like that called an F1 at the D1 level all year. And I know as a small college official, we tried to avoid that call on plays like this.

Peace

MechanicGuy Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1031616)
I do not think that is a hook and hold at all. #12 is the one that puts his arm under the arm of #35, but they do not lock or even prevent movement of the others. That at most would be a regular foul, but even that is a stretch to me.

I have not seen a single "hook and hold" like that called an F1 at the D1 level all year. And I know as a small college official, we tried to avoid that call on plays like this.

Peace

IDK Rut, this looks like a pretty good example of a hook/hold to me. I've definitely seen similar plays called as such. The only difference being the player being held attempting to jump, which didn't happen here because the ball went to other side of the lane.

AremRed Mon Mar 25, 2019 01:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 1031612)
Any video of this review?

Not much to see or learn from there. Ball didn't obviously hit the rim, the call on the floor stood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1031615)
Play 4 is an obvious hook and hold on white 12. Should have been an F1.

Gotta agree with you on this one, this action however brief looked like every video JD put out this year addressing the hook and hold.

dahoopref Mon Mar 25, 2019 02:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 1031612)
Any video of this review?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1031622)
Not much to see or learn from there. Ball didn't obviously hit the rim, the call on the floor stood.

From what was described, UCF shot was missed (but "grazed" the rim), shot-clock buzzer goes off, play continued as UCF got the rebound and made put-back FG.

The crew stops the game to review if the previous attempt was a shot clock violation.

From what I know, a shot clock review can be done after the original FG is made; they have to stop the game immediately to check if the shot was released in time.

In this case, the original shot was missed but deemed to have hit the rim. The subsequent FG attempt (the 2nd shot) was made by UCF thus making the previous (alleged) shot clock violation non-reviewable.

Please correct me if I'm wrong; thanks.

JRutledge Mon Mar 25, 2019 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy (Post 1031617)
IDK Rut, this looks like a pretty good example of a hook/hold to me. I've definitely seen similar plays called as such. The only difference being the player being held attempting to jump, which didn't happen here because the ball went to other side of the lane.

I have seen quite a few of these as well and as the season went on they were making it clear that we do not call any "locked" arms a hook and hold. You have to be restricted and there was little to no restriction here. A foul maybe, but not a hook and hold.

Peace


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