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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 03:41pm
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What is the call?

Dribbler is in transition with defensive player running / trailing near half court. Offensive player can sense the defensive player is closing fast so dribbler on purpose swerves in path and "slams" on the brakes and gets knocked to the ground and trampled. Whatcha got?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 04:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetime1 View Post
Dribbler is in transition with defensive player running / trailing near half court. Offensive player can sense the defensive player is closing fast so dribbler on purpose swerves in path and "slams" on the brakes and gets knocked to the ground and trampled. Whatcha got?
As the official, I have no idea what a player can and cannot "sense". I have a foul on the defense. Seems pretty easy to me. I'm not trying to figure out what the players are thinking. I'm going off what I can see in that situation.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 04:06pm
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The offense is trying to screen, and the player with the ball is given no more protection than a player without the ball. Foul on the offense, or play on (assuming the screening requirements were not met).
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 04:39pm
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Player Behind Overruns His Opponent ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The offense is trying to screen, and the player with the ball is given no more protection than a player without the ball. Foul on the offense, or play on.
It does sound like a screen, but the player behind is responsible for the contact.

4-40: Screen
ART. 2 To establish a legal screening position:
c. The screener must be stationary, except when both the screener and opponent are moving in the same path and the same direction.
ART. 6 When screening an opponent who is moving in the same path and direction as the screener, the player behind is responsible if contact is made because the player in front slows up or stops and the player behind
overruns his/her opponent.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 04:42pm.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 04:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It does sound like a screen, but the player behind is responsible for the contact.

[/I]
This wasn't a "same path and direction" play.

From the OP: "dribbler on purpose swerves in path and "slams" on the brakes "
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 05:07pm
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Ticketed For Following Too Closely ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
This wasn't a "same path and direction" play. From the OP: "dribbler on purpose swerves in path and "slams" on the brakes "
If it wasn't same path and direction there wouldn't have been a collision when he slammed on the brakes (the "accident" would have been avoided).

Wait, I guess it could have been T-Bone accident?

I would like to see the play.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 06:30pm
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This is exact type of play that we have discussed at association meeting recently. The discussion leader agreed that the act by the ball handler was "pre-meditated"; however, he told us that we have to call this on the defensive player because we should never "think" for the ball handler--instead to simply judge if the contact was illegal. Believe me, I feel your pain on this one my fellow official; however, that ball handler is also risking a back injury by engaging in such a [dare I say 'unsporting'] ploy---and perhaps that could become his karma.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 07:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
This is exact type of play that we have discussed at association meeting recently. The discussion leader agreed that the act by the ball handler was "pre-meditated"; however, he told us that we have to call this on the defensive player because we should never "think" for the ball handler--instead to simply judge if the contact was illegal. Believe me, I feel your pain on this one my fellow official; however, that ball handler is also risking a back injury by engaging in such a [dare I say 'unsporting'] ploy---and perhaps that could become his karma.
Unfortunate that your discussion leader put forth his personal opinion as an instruction to your group instead of the proper NFHS ruling.
The contact is illegal and the ballhandler caused it by doing something not permitted under the rules.

Last edited by Nevadaref; Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 07:08pm.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 07:07pm
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10.7.7 SITUATION:

During congested play in the free-throw semi-circle, B1 and B2 are less than 3 feet apart when dribbler A1 fakes to one side and then causes contact in attempting to dribble between them.

RULING: Unless one of the defensive players is faked out of position to permit adequate space for the dribbler to go between without making contact, it is a player-control foul on A1.

COMMENT: Screening principles apply to the dribbler who attempts to cut off an opponent who is approaching in a different path from the rear. In this case, the dribbler must allow such opponent a maximum of two steps or an opportunity to stop or avoid contact. When both the dribbler and the opponent are moving in exactly the same path and same direction, the player behind is responsible for contact which results if the player in front slows down or stops. (4-7-2)
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 09:54pm
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Based on OP description, this is a defensive foul..every...single..time.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2019, 11:03pm
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Based on OP description, this is a defensive foul..every...single..time.
Apparently you canít read the first sentence of the comment in the above play ruling from the NFHS.
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Old Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Based on OP description, this is a defensive foul..every...single..time.
You misspelled offensive.
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Old Sat Feb 16, 2019, 10:18pm
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Nope, based on my interpretation of the OP, this is a defensive foul..every..single...time.

OP excludes any details such as number of steps, etc. between ball handler and defender. Based on your interpretation, ball handler could do the same thing, 20 feet in front of the defender and you would have an offensive foul. Based on OP, it would be nearly impossible for defender to not have a chance to stop or avoid contact.
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Old Sat Feb 16, 2019, 10:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
10.7.7 SITUATION:

During congested play in the free-throw semi-circle, B1 and B2 are less than 3 feet apart when dribbler A1 fakes to one side and then causes contact in attempting to dribble between them.

RULING: Unless one of the defensive players is faked out of position to permit adequate space for the dribbler to go between without making contact, it is a player-control foul on A1.

COMMENT: Screening principles apply to the dribbler who attempts to cut off an opponent who is approaching in a different path from the rear. In this case, the dribbler must allow such opponent a maximum of two steps or an opportunity to stop or avoid contact. When both the dribbler and the opponent are moving in exactly the same path and same direction, the player behind is responsible for contact which results if the player in front slows down or stops. (4-7-2)
*Not sure how this reference applies to the original post on this thread? Your rules reference here is talking about Ax "dribbling between defenders" and then causing contact. The original post is describing an altogether different type of action by said dribbler Ax; this was the case that our discussion leader was talking about and it was instructive.
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Old Sun Feb 17, 2019, 01:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Nope, based on my interpretation of the OP, this is a defensive foul..every..single...time.

OP excludes any details such as number of steps, etc. between ball handler and defender. Based on your interpretation, ball handler could do the same thing, 20 feet in front of the defender and you would have an offensive foul. Based on OP, it would be nearly impossible for defender to not have a chance to stop or avoid contact.
Don't be silly. The clear implication is that the defender was right there with the ball handler and the ball handler cut off the defender at the last moment. You're just trying to rationalize a way to not call it as prescribed.
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