NCAAM - Inbound steal = Primary or secondary defender?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bucky

Thanks for response.

I would like to know at what point they thought B1 became a primary defender...or even a defender. When the ball was stolen, B1 was out of bounds. Was he a primary defender, or defender at all, while out of bounds? Or did he become that after stepping inbounds? Whateves...I guess that is a different post.

Dude, as an official you need to know when legal guarding position is established. That marks the beginning of "defending". You are letting primary/secondary confuse you.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

Dude, as an official you need to know when legal guarding position is established. That marks the beginning of "defending". You are letting primary/secondary confuse you.

I disagree. A player can be defending and/or guarding without having legal guarding position. It happens all the time, even hundreds of times per game.

[johnny d]

I asked 25 NCAA-M D1 officials that I know about this play. These officials get anywhere from 10-60 D1 games a year and work in conferences ranging from the OVC and WAC on the lower end, and the PAC12 and Big Ten on the high end, and all kinds of mid-major conferences in between. 22 of them said this is an outnumbered break, and the defender is a secondary defender. 3 of them, including the two newest officials to get D1 games, were on the opposite side. Many of the longer serving D1 officials mentioned that there were either rulings or discussions at the preseason NCAA meetings the year the RA went into effect where they were informed that this type of play is to be ruled an outnumbered break and secondary defender. During a brief inspection of the NCAA-M central hub, I did not find an archive of rulings or presentations that went back to the year the RA was added to the rule set. I put very little effort into looking so it is probably there if anyone wants to actually do the work to find it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I asked 25 NCAA-M D1 officials that I know about this play. These officials get anywhere from 10-60 D1 games a year and work in conferences ranging from the OVC and WAC on the lower end, and the PAC12 and Big Ten on the high end, and all kinds of mid-major conferences in between. 22 of them said this is an outnumbered break, and the defender is a secondary defender. 3 of them, including the two newest officials to get D1 games, were on the opposite side. Many of the longer serving D1 officials mentioned that there were either rulings or discussions at the preseason NCAA meetings the year the RA went into effect where they were informed that this type of play is to be ruled an outnumbered break and secondary defender. During a brief inspection of the NCAA-M central hub, I did not find an archive of rulings or presentations that went back to the year the RA was added to the rule set. I put very little effort into looking so it is probably there if anyone wants to actually do the work to find it.

So, as I quoted the originator of this thread earlier:

Originally Posted by Raymond

...

Unless somewhere here has direct access to JD Collins or Art Hyland, all you're going to get are opinions. I don't think an answer is going to magically fall out of the sky. You are only going to get variations of this: "If you think B1 is a primary defender in the RA, then you have an offensive foul. If you think B1 is a secondary defender in the RA, then you have a defensive foul. If you think that B1 is neither a primary nor a secondary defender, then you have found a loophole in the rules regarding the RA......and you would have to make some sort of call based on something. "

Other than Hyland or Collins, the closest we'll get to a definitive answer is if someone asks Al Battista.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I asked 25 NCAA-M D1 officials that I know about this play.

Wow, thank you. I appreciate the legwork a great deal.