When to start 10 second count?
 

Player A is dribbling in his frontcourt....B knocks the ball out of his hand and it is slowly rolling into the backcourt. Player A just takes his time to walk over and pick up the ball.....When do you start the 10 second count?
Thanks

I can almost guarantee someone is going to answer your question with a question.


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When would you start it? What does 10 second rule say?

Good call.

True. Why can't people just answer a simple rules question? Oops, that was a question too. Maybe the poster is coach, a fan or a rec league ref without access to a rule book.

Rule 9-8 says: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

So to answer to the OP, begin the 10 second count when the player gains control of the ball in the backcourt.

Simple rules question, huh?
Your answer is incorrect.
LMAO

Incorrect?
Are you saying count would start when ball went into backcourt?
Ball was in the frontcourt and was knocked into backcourt by defender, why would you start 10 second count before ball was picked up in the backcourt?

Who has team control? That answers your question.

That’s malpractice doc🙃. The count starts the moment the ball touches the BC.
Ps. I only answered the OP with a question because cross country “almost guaranteed” it. I wanted him to be right.😀

Well at my age any day you learn something new is a good day. Thanks guys.

👍

Then qualify that, this is an official's forum, not a coach's or fan's forum.

Peace

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

Publisher's Note: The National Federation of State High School Associations is the only source of official high school interpretations. They do not set aside nor modify any rule. They are made and published by the NFHS in response to situations presented.
Robert F. Kanaby, Publisher, NFHS Publications 2008

SITUATION 8: A1 is dribbling in his/her frontcourt when B1 deflects the ball into A's backcourt. The ball is bouncing toward the end line in A's backcourt while A1 and B1 give chase. B1 and A1 each contact the ball, but neither gains control. Finally, after numerous attempts by each player, A1 gains possession deep in A's backcourt. When does the 10-second count begin anew for Team A? RULING: The count starts as soon as the ball goes into the backcourt since team control has not ended. (4-12-3; 9-8)

What the gentleman from Illinois meant to say was....fans, coaches and general lurkers are welcome here (except when posing as fanboys in March)! We just ask that you ID yourself as such so that we can be a little patient. Among officials...well, we have a little tendency to eat our young.





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That is actually not what I meant to say. I teach classes and when someone asks a question like this, I ask questions to help them get to the real answer. Usually, they learn better than me just saying, "The count starts....." because they do not understand the logic in the long run. I ask questions so that they can work through the logic of the rules and understand the rule itself. And the people in my classes are often rather new with some experience or never have officiated a day in their life. Many come from the coaching and player ranks and often think a rule is one way or what it was when they were playing. I am very clear about my position. When people are not officials on this site, they could make that known like many have over the years. It is clear this is an official's forum, not a fanboy site where people there assume all kinds of things with rules. I do not think there is anything wrong with asking questions to help people draw the conclusion.

Peace

Don't feel bad; Joyce S.(VHSL BBall Rules honcho) got it wrong last time I asked her...

When to start 10 second count?
 

Oh no, I just emailed her about another rules interpretation!

Thanks Nevada for the 2008-2009 case book play reference. I started in 2009, and while it may have been published again since 2008, I didn't remember it.


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Ask us and compare the answers.

When to start the 10 sec. count?
 

WOW.
Can't believe all the garbage that went with this post. "Is he a fan, a coach, a lurker..WTF? I simply asked a question that a veteran of 40 years ran by me yesterday at our game. I understood the justification he gave and trusted he was correct based on his veteran status, but for my own learning/knowledge of the game i was looking for more, or someone else to give me the same answer. Since the game, I've asked several area officials on this play, and they are all wrong also (Dr. Pete)! This is my 8th season working varsity ball in Ohio/Pa and this play has never come up. I go to this forum a lot (read more than post) when I have questions so that I can continue to learn. Ill tell you one thing I have learned sadly, is that being a former FB coach for years, I always felt that coaches were some of the most egotistical dudes to be around - changed my mind, officials can be the worst. Put a whistle in someones mouth and forget it.

Need To Win A Bar Bet ...
 

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/nN...bbbb/t_500x300

Agree. I myself used the Socratic method for the thirty years that I taught various sciences. I was a most successful, award winning teacher because of it.

While it can't be denied that this is an officials forum, sometimes a fan, parent, coach, player, table crew member, etc., just wants a simple answer to a simple question, using the forum as a rule source rather than a discussion board.

Many would disagree with me, but occasionally an official may want a quick answer to a question. It's the twenty-first century, and the internet is now considered a source of information, books made of dead trees no longer have a monopoly as sources of information.

If you are an official as you claim, then you should know how to find the answer rather quickly. If that bothers you that we here discuss all kinds of aspects of a rule and you cannot get a quick answer, take that to a mentor or someone on FB. BTW, they do the same thing on FB and other social media platforms during similar discussions. I also feel many officials have very fragile egos when expecting to get an answer they never seem to understand. You have been doing this in 8 years and have not figured out when a 10-second count starts? And your question was not about when it actually started, but when it continues. This is something I learned the first year of officiating because I had to get into the rulebook. They did not even have this forum up when I started. I had to do a lot of reading of the rulebook to know basic things. Not a lot of email or even social media to get a quick answer. Lame if you ask me.

Peace

Alyssa, Or Siri ...
 

When I logged on this morning "When to start the 10 sec. count" with seventeen replies caught my attention. I wondered what was going on. Should have been answered in far fewer replies than that, maybe an answer and an additional rule citation.

While I enjoy debate as much as anybody, and fully understand the educational value of "digging" into a topic (my understanding of the various jump ball rules has improved because of a recent thread), I also understand that some may use this forum as a rule source, like Alexa, or Siri, but with the hassle of having to use a keyboard rather than just asking orally.

They may want one, but then we have apps, rulebooks, and many platforms to get those answers. Not everyone is going to just give you the answer when the question clearly shows you do not understand the very basics of what you are asking.

Peace

Why wouldn't you post more? You're an 8th year vet and could contribute.

I don't understand when people take and take and take and then complain about how the responses are unfriendly and the like -- if you were a contributor, I'd be more inclined to listen more.

I get we're an annoying bunch at times, but we know the answers to these questions and rather than answer them, we'd like to get people to find the answers themselves by asking the questions that need to be asked to figure them out. That's all.

Information Tool ...
 

When I'm at a game site, I use the rulebook and casebook to get a quick answer (I don't own a smartphone, long story).

When I'm taking my annual take-home open-book Refresher Exam, I have the rulebook and casebook by my side.

But when I'm home with my packed equipment bag downstairs near the door, or in the back seat of my car, I know how to get a relatively quickly answer to a question, I ask the Forum (or use its search tool).

Sometimes there is no quick answer, usually because the NFHS has done a poor job regarding some interpretations, but I'm very likely to get a quick correct answer using the Forum in many cases.

Rule 9-8 says: A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

I am having an absolute brain freeze. Cortex won't work...except to type. On a throw-in to the BC, the count is not started until there is player control in the BC. What citation explains that the 10 second count is started with player control and not simply when the ball is in the BC? (b/c there is still team control during a throw-in)

Example: A1 releases the ball on a throw-in to the BC and the ball slowly rolls in the BC for 4 seconds without being touched. A2 gets the ball and the official begins the 10-second count. Why does the 10-second count not start when the ball is inbounds rolling untouched, after all Team A had team control?

I know the rule, just can't find where it is documented. Or does this fall under the reasoning that there is no documentation needed because TC on a throw-in only applies to foul situations? I just can't remember. Thought there was something specific.

Information Source ...
 

Agree, and the Forum is one of them (I might add, a pretty good one), and of course, there are many others, including books made of dead trees, sometimes there's nothing wrong with "old stuff" like the wheel, and walls.

Don't miss the point Billy. There are several resources to get this answer. There are even Simplified and Illustrated books, Rules by Topic, Referee Magazine articles and tests, online websites, and even rulebooks online if you look hard enough. If you are going to be in your feelings about the answers you get, then use the multiple resources to find the answer. And if someone gives you an answer, how are you going to know they are telling you the right reference? It means you might have to still look it up.

Peace

Hey Girlfriend ...
 

Ask Alexa, or Siri. And then ask her to rub your back.

Policing Ourselves ...
 

Here on the Forum, we do a pretty good job of policing ourselves. It's almost like the peer review process that we scientists are obligated use.

In this case, I think the rule book is pretty clear. I will admit that there are a few rules that I have heard "veteran" officials just make things up. This has caused me to doubt my interpretation of the rule book sometimes. In defense of the OP, I know what the rule book says but it never hurts to get some discussion going about these types of things.

When to start the 10 sec. count?
 

1. I only come here when I can't find the answer myself. There's nothing in the 2018-19 casebook. Looks like I'd have to go back to 2008-9 to find it.
2. Why don't I post here more? Would rather look people in the eyes to get an answer than spend hours playing on the internet.

So you're a user. Then you don't like the response when you come here to use us. Got it.

See you in another 2+ years, I guess.

1. So the easy answer was to go back to the 2008-09 book to find it? Sure, the justification of the play seems simple, but there's a lot of officials out there who would answer that question wrong, just as you read on here (Dr. Pete)..
2. Nothing about a fragile ego here. i have the balls to simply ask something that I wish to know. you may need to tell the world how you clawed your way up the ladder by reading the rulebook in order too feel good about yourself - i don't. So i think its pretty clear whats 'lame" here.

Need For Annual Interpretation ...
 

While agree with JRutledge that knowing when to start the ten second count is a very basic rule that all of us learned the very first year we officiated, the fact that the NFHS chose to make this an annual interpretation with no relevant rule change leads me to speculate that the NFHS felt that more than just two or three of us were waiting to start a new count until the ball was touched or controlled (by a player) in the backcourt in this specific situation.

Please Contribute ...
 

Agree with Rich. Please contribute.

Also sounds like Rich is another disciple of Socrates.

Of course, as disciples of Socrates, unlike Socrates, we have to remember not to drink the hemlock.

NCAA Rules on the 10-second count is not the same as the NF rule. And this rule was changed in the last few years to go along with the shot clock time. If that was asked that could have been explained. But this was not a NCAA rules question or any reference to what the NCAA might do.

And this also has nothing to do with any POE. The rule has been the same since I started officiating in the mid-90s with the NF. But I digress.

Peace

C'Mon Billy, this isn't about a "continuation" of the 10 sec. clock as Rutledge claims, it was simply a question of when to RESTART the count. Period!

Your last point is the reason....there is only team control on a throwin for fouls. Real and full team control only begins when an inbounds player gains control.

You don't have to go back to any case book. A basic reading and understanding of the written rules (on backcourt violations and team control) tells you everything you need to make the ruling.

Confused In Connecticut ...
 

After posting, I double checked my 2018-19 Connecticut prep school rules handout which shows the change. After double checking, I deleted that part of my post, I'm sorry if I have confused anybody, I almost confused myself.

Did a "veteran" official make a false claim about a shot clock reset situation and edit it? Just wondering if I am losing my mind because I just read up on it and at least in my state, he would be wrong. Proves my point that no matter how "basic" a rule should be, it is okay to discuss sometimes.

Something Is Rotten In The State Of Denmark (William Shakespeare, Hamlet) …
 

Annual interpretation, not a Point of Emphasis.

Agree 100%, the rule has been around for a very long time (since at least 1980 for me), unchanged.

But the NFHS must have thought that something "fishy" was going on to make this situation an annual interpretation.

Hindsight Is 20/20 ...
 

Not a false claim, just an old situation that is no longer valid, making it confusing, which is why I deleted it.

Sorry if I confused anybody.

As the young'uns say, "My bad" (do they still say that?).

Let's make sure we are talking about the same thing. Does a new shot clock start on a touch or control in a rebounding situation?

I sincerely apologize for any confusion, while my post (shot clock operator improperly synching to visible ten second count) was relevant, it was confusing since the shot clock/ten second rules have changed since the situation that I posted about occurred.

Connecticut Private Prep School Rules (not necessarily the same as NCAA)
30-second Shot Clock
Used for 10-second backcourt violation. However, when the shot clock is turnedoff, the official must use a visual count.
During a throw-in, the shot clock starts when the ball is legally touched by any player.
Throw-in by A-1 Ruling - Shot clock and game clock start when the ball is legally touched inbounds.

(I only posted the rules relevant to this situation. There are additional rules regarding kicks, punches, held balls, trys, rim, etc.)

My memory of your post was that you specifically told a shot clock operator to start the shot clock, on a rebounding situation, when the ball was touched (tipped).

This is exactly why no one should be afraid to ask a question, no matter how basic or experience level.

shot clocks restart after resetting once there is clear player control established. However the exception would be on an inbounds once the inbounds is over...so doesn't require PC. now ive confused myself.

Visible Ten Second Counts ...
 

Must have a poor memory (like me). As much as I hate to repost it, here's the original post before I deleted it:

I had to tell a shot clock operator (prep school game) not to wait for control to start the shot clock (after a made basket), start at just a touch, while I didn't start my ten second count until control was established, which could vary by a few seconds. Not being an NCAA official, and being fairly unfamiliar with shot clocks, I learned that on the Forum (it wasn't on our Connecticut prep school rules handout).

Note: This was before relevant rule changes, when we were still using visible ten second counts. I was trying to point out that some may confuse touch, team control, and player control in counting situations.

The Blame Game (Kanye West, 2010) ...
 

No you haven't. Blame me.

I am not going to argue that you changed the "(after a made basket)" part but the fact you had to tell a shot clock operator this is very strange if you did not change it. I have gone through shot clock implementation in two states and I never had to work that out with an operator. Almost every issue had to do with the reset after a missed shot.

Poor Throwin Ricocheted Off Of Several Players ...
 

I may have added "after a made basket" to clarify the situation.

It happened several years ago, before shot clock/ten second rules were changed for Connecticut prep schools, we were still using visible ten second counts (starting with control, like NFHS rules), and I believed that the shot clock operator was delaying the shot clock start until I started my visible ten second count, it was very apparent after a poor throwin ricocheted off of several players before control was established.

Connecticut private prep schools use hybrid NCAA/NFHS rules that were not very well documented. It took me (who doesn't know NCAA rules very well) a ton of effort (and two years) to get the rule changed from three feet (back) to six feet for girls closely guarded. Private prep schools are always a dollar short and a day late when it comes to rule changes. This makes it hard for our NCAA guys to work their games (do I use new NCAA rules or old NCAA rules?) especially with little written documentation (it's better now). And the rules often change from school to school, some schools allow pregame dunking, some don't, we have to ask.

This does not make much sense. The shot clock operator must have very confused when there was a throw-in in the front court.

That is if you are using NCAA Men's rules for sure, but that was not always the case. And since we do not have a NF shot clock rule, I would assume that each state that uses a shot clock has some variations of when the shot clock is used. I would think logically that would be the application, but we have seen stranger things.

Peace

Yes NCAA-mens. And I officiated HS in 2 shot clock states (CA and NY), and this is how we applied the clock logic. Truthfully it's a much better game versus non-shot clock ones IMO.

Smooth Operator (Sade, 1984) …
 

Not really. The frontcourt throwin is always accompanied by a chop the time in signal (no such signal after a made basket throwin). Just touching the ball will do it for both starting the game clock and stating the shot clock, with no visible or nonvisible ten second count (unless it goes into the backcourt) to be out of synch (in the olden days before the rule change) with the shot clock.

The shot clock operator (back then) was confused by a throwin after a made basket, with no chop the time in signal, and (incorrectly) waiting for me to start my visible (back then) ten second count (control) to start the shot clock.

I've had really confused shot clock operators starting the shot clock as a the ball goes though the basket.

The Land Of Steady Habits ...
 

Correct. Connecticut private prep schools have changed shot clock rules at least once.

I have worked a couple of high school tournaments with the shot clock. Not something I am a huge fan of at that level. Often times there were just bad shots taken or it was never a factor because of the up and down nature of the teams playing. I just see many problems with the table people either resetting the clock too soon or not knowing when to start it properly. But I do believe it will come anyway and we will have a new normal of shot clock mistakes and issues.

Peace

Perspective ...
 

Important words from a veteran, highly respected official who has worked high level college games with a shot clock, high level high school games with no shot clock, and high level high school games with a shot clock.

I was waiting for this answer. Now I don't need to post anything.

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Billy causing confusion? No one has ever predicted that.

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I can live with Billy's discussion points, even though confusing :confused:. The first response to the original question was uncalled for.

I could have ignored Billy's edited post but I thought it was a good time to prove a point that it is okay for people to ask questions, even if things seem straight forward. It should be encouraged.

This is not quite true, in this internet age. There are fairly-recent on-line resources, in fact--a 2017-2018 rule book and a 2016-2017 casebook--which can be searched easily.

So, then, perhaps a better question than the one you asked is of the form, "A veteran told me X. As I read the rule, it should be Y, because ... What, if anything am I missing in this?"

Free, With No Advertising ...
 

... for example, the Forum.

And if you're having trouble searching, just type in a question to one of our many expert online customer service representatives (most not located in India) to start an online chat, and you'll likely get a pretty reliable answer in a very short period of time.

Isn't this internet age just amazing? It's so easy to find information. But be careful. Remember what our sixteenth president, Abraham Lincoln, said, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet".

A Mark Goodson-Bill Todman Production ...
 

That's my line.

...If the person answering CHOOSES to give a straight-forward, rule book answer. There is no obligation to do so, and those who don't shouldn't be demonized for not doing someone else's leg work.

All the posters here whom I trust with rules knowledge (including myself) engage the OPs with questions to further the discussion in order to lead to a logical and researched conclusion. These discussions often cause us to do our own research and discover some nuances we may ourselves not been aware of initially.

NCAAW Interp (correct because the NCAAW rule is different from FED's rule):

DATE:

1/2/2019

RULE:

4-8-2

QUESTION:

Team A has control of the ball in the front court. B2 deflects the ball deep into the back court and A2 runs back and receives the ball back by the free throw line. Because team A was still in team control does the 10 second counts start when the ball crosses the division line or when A2 picks the ball up?

ANSWER:

No part of the backcourt count is predicated on the ball crossing the division line. When B2 deflected the ball into the backcourt, the ten-second count begins when any player touches the ball in Team A’s backcourt (Rule 9-10; A.R. 233 [1]).

Here's the relevant rule:

Section 10. 10-Second Backcourt
The 10-second count shall begin when a player legally touches the ball in her
team’s backcourt except on a rebound or jump ball. In such case, the 10-second
count shall start on player control. Once the 10-second count begins, an
inbounds player (and her team) shall not be in continuous control of a ball that
is in her backcourt for 10 consecutive seconds. The 10-second count shall be
reset on all stoppages of the game clock except when the opponents cause the
ball to be out of bounds, the team in control retains possession following a held
ball, a technical foul is assessed to the team in control, or the team in control
is granted a timeout.

So, to clarify...

NFHS: Count begins when team control in the backcourt begins. Following a throw-in, that means the count begins once player control is established in the backcourt (true team control). When the ball is deflected by the defense into the backcourt but is still in the offense's control, the count begins as soon as the ball gains backcourt status.

NCAA-M/W: Count begins when the ball is touched in the backcourt by the team in control. The count begins when the throw-in ends when touched in the backcourt. When there is no team control, the count begins when player control in the backcourt begins.

Correct?

Sometimes You Feel Like A Nut, Sometimes You Don't ...
 

Agree with everything.

Sometimes one just wants a simple answer.

Sometimes one gets it, sometimes one doesn't.

One gets what one pays for.

What are the annual dues to join the Forum?

High School Versus College ...
 

Maybe that's why the NFHS came out with the annual interpretation (2008-09 SITUATION 8), because high school officials were confusing the high school rule with the college rule?

I have to say I appreciate all the knowledge that you guys supply. Your methods of getting the answer to somebody is effective and gets a guy to think. I've learned plenty from you guys. Even how to "T" somebody up!! :)

Thanks guys!

When to start 10 second count?
 

Well...………..72 responses later, thanks for clearing this up. I learned something.

You could have found the answer to the question in 10 minutes (quicker with the app). ;)

Peace

As Long As You Learned Something ...
 

It wasn't as bad as that:

9:09 Post 1 Jqb12 Question
10:23 Post 5 DrKildare Wrong Answer
10:26 Post 6 Nevadaref Answer Questioned
10:47 Post 9 BigCat Right Answer
11:09 Post 13 Nevadaref Answer Confirmed

JRutledge has a good point, ten minutes is a lot shorter than two hours.

They seem to go out of their way to emphasize that the ball crossing the division line having no affect a 10-second count starting. I don't think that's an argument anybody has ever tried to make. Why nothing on the more pertinent part of this conversation, the ball attaining BC status while in continuous TC? We all know the 10-second count terminates once the ball gains FC status, regardless of PC. The relevant variable to this conversation should be the reverse--should a 10-second count start when the ball attains BC status while in continuous TC.

For Our High School Only Members ...
 

For our high school only members that see this college interpretation, I don't like the phrase "crossing the division line".

The ball crossing the plane of the division line (in the air) is not only not relevant to the college ten second count, it's also not relevant to the application of the high school ten second count, the ball must touch someone in the backcourt, or the floor in the backcourt, to begin the high school ten second count in the situation that we've been discussing, not simply cross the plane of the division line in the air.

Of course, all Forum members are what'cha call experts, and we would never think that.

The rule makes it clear (at least to me). It details when, always, the count starts -- in the OP (and in all instances except a jump ball or a rebound), it's when the ball is touched.

That's exactly my point to Bob. That's a worthless test question because it discusses something no one ever gets confused about. The confusion, understandably, is a ball that gains BC status while in continuous TC after previously being in the FC. As far as I can tell in that test question, the ball never touched the floor in the backcourt, thus duh, it didn't gain BC status until the A2 caught the ball.

It's not a test question, it's an answer by the secretary rules-editor to a question submitted to him.

My interp is that the ball hitting the floor before A gets to it is implied (but I agree it could be stated). I don't think I've ever seen a ball deflected to the back court that went more than a couple of feet before hitting the floor (or being caught).

Not sure if I'm impressed with you spending the time on the computer to track the history, or saddened by it.

Alexa, Play Santana's Soul Sacrifice ...
 

I asked Alexa to do it for me. After that, she made my dinner and did my laundry.

Very cool.......and mighty efficient!

I'm looking for clarification on this too!:confused:

For NFHS, I would say on a throw-in, the 10 second could would not start until player control was established in the BC. Correct?

I'm So Dizzy My Head Is Spinning (Tommy Roe, 1969) …
 

Always listen to SC Official. Wait ... I'm being told ... bob who?

Sit back and enjoy some 1960's bubblegum pop:

https://youtu.be/_rTmaU3lvn4

Like a whirlpool, it never ends.

I know this is correct, but where is the rule on team control on a throw-in only for fouls?

Good question, but you (know you are) asking the wrong person.

It's in the various POEs. FED could change that. No one here can.

Team Control, Throwin ...
 

That's the $64,000.00 question.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
2. Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

Now, how are those without access to a 2017-18 rulebook supposed to know this?

By the oral tradition of young basketball officials sitting around a campfire listening to stories about old Points of Emphasis from old, grizzled, veteran officials?

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.U...=0&w=314&h=177

That's Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on the left, back when he had a full head of hair.

PIAA 2017-2018 POE

Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.
With specific regard to the backcourt violation; a team may not be the last to touch a live ball in the front court and then be the first to touch a live ball in the backcourt, provided that team has establish player control/team control on the playing court (either in the backcourt or frontcourt). BY RULE EXCEPTION, during a throw-in a team may leave the front court, establish player control/team control while airborne and land in the backcourt. This is a legal play and ONLY applies to the first player of the offense who touches the ball PRIOR to the end of the throw-in.

Primarily Affects How Foul Penalties Will Be Administered
 

2011-12 BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES
Several definitions were changed to reflect that team control will now exist during a throw-in when the thrower-in has the ball at his/her disposal. The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered.

"Primarily" not "solely" so what else does it affect?

The flow of questions on discussion forums.

Why not change the NFHS 10-second rule to match NCAA? Both sets of rules both start team control on the throw-in, so why not start the 10-second count on team control inbounds, rather than player control? This would render this entire discussion thread moot, as well as ease the inevitable transition to a high school shot clock.

Not correct. Team control in NFHS, for all but one purpose, starts with player control inbounds....the same time as the 10 count starts. College used to be the same. They changed to make the shot clock administration easier.

DC uses college rules for shot clock, 10 seconds, and closely guarded counts. If NFHS has team control on throw-ins for fouls and timeouts, it wouldn't be a stretch to recognize TC on throw-ins for other purposes (10-second count) as well. Sure, the rule might require re-writing, but it would not have a situation where there both is and isn't team control (TC on throw-in, lost because ball is inbounds, then re-gained by same team by acquiring player control; where TC is not normally lost on loose balls (including passes), and would thus be simpler to administer. If the other team controls the ball after the backcourt throw-in, 10-second count ends. Same team controls, 10-second count continues. The count could be administered visibly, invisibly with the game clock, or invisibly with the shot clock (for states where one exists, or when all states go shot clock).

Because we don't write the rules, and the people who write the rules don't read this forum.

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Even A Caveman Can Do It ...
 

That's Mark T. DeNucci, Jr. (the long haired tree hugging hippie) on the right. He's discussing with his Dad how easy it is to buy GEICO insurance online.

I Feel His Pain ...
 

Several weeks ago I spit into a cup and sent it off to 23 And Me for testing.

Turns out that 4% of my DNA is Neanderthal.

Now, like many, I'm highly offended by this television commercial:

https://youtu.be/EYottyI027o

It's True, It's True ...
 

Officiating high school basketball. So easy a caveman can do it.