"Greater responsibility for contact"

[ChuckS]

I may have been calling a play wrong. A1 dribbling quickly from BC to FC, B1 establishes LGP about 10 feet ahead of A1, two feet from the sideline. A1 is able to pass B1 (both running by now), but in doing so, is forced OOB by slight contact by B1. I have always called a foul on B1. But Rule 4-7-2c states, in part “If there is less than 3 feet of space, the dribbler has the greater responsibility for the contact”. So of course we must determine what “greater responsibility” means. In my case above, does it mean no foul, and an OOB violation on A1?

Here is a link to a similar discussion, but it involved a "hip check", not slight contact.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...hs-4-7-2c.html

[Raymond]

If B1 created/initiated illegal contact that forced A1 to go OOB, I'm calling a foul on B1.

If A1 tried to squeeze past B1 and what would normally be incidental contact caused A1 to go OOB, I have an OOB call.

[BillyMac]

Force out.

Yeah, it was a real rule back in ancient times.

Young'uns can look it up on the Google.

https://youtu.be/HqynTsrlxvM

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If B1 created/initiated illegal contact that forced A1 to go OOB, I'm calling a foul on A1.



If A1 tried to squeeze past B1 and what would normally be incidental contact caused A1 to go OOB, I have an OOB call.

This.

When I was a newer official, I assumed “greater responsibility for the contact” meant that if you’re not charging B1 with a blocking foul here, you have to charge A1 with a PCF. But the artist formerly known as BNR is more correct; though a PCF is certainly a possible outcome, “greater responsibility for the contact” more commonly means that A1 is a fool for trying to squeeze a golf ball through a garden hose, and is every bit responsible for having his arse end up out of bounds.


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[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If B1 created/initiated illegal contact that forced A1 to go OOB, I'm calling a foul on A1.

If A1 tried to squeeze past B1 and what would normally be incidental contact caused A1 to go OOB, I have an OOB call.

Did you mean to say foul on B1?

[Kansas Ref]

Similar to the dribbler having the "greater responsibility for avoiding contact", this is also seen in other cases: 1) A1 receives a pass in the high post and B1 has obtained LGP (legal guarding position); then A1 proceeds to bull-drive his/her way thru the lane and trips over the leg or foot of B1 and falls down hard on the floor (mind you that B1's foot was already there first). Or 2) A2 is driving thru the lane from the perimeter, with B2 having obtained LGP, then A2 trips over the foot of B2, falls down hard on the floor.
I have frequently observed where officials (NF, NCAA, NBA, IABBO, etc.) will call a "block" on B1 [or B2]--despite B1/B2 having his/her foot on the spot before A1 decided to mush their way thru. In this case, really A1 / A2 has the "burden of avoiding the contact"; however, presumably due to habits and expectations, B1/B2 is always called for the foul.
I officiated a game recently wherein this case presented itself to me early in the game. A1 dribble driving through the lane and simply tripping over the "already set" foot of defender. I did not "whistle" the play and the coach was aghast saying "look at my player limping cause he got tripped up". The coachcalls a time out and comes over to ask me: "hey didn't you see that?!" to which I replied "yes, I saw your player trip over a defender in LGP".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Did you mean to say foul on B1?

Doh!!! Fixed it.