The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 11:45am
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 642
Short Notice Cancellation

Recently had a game cancelled 3 hours before tip off and prior to arriving at the game. Game was cancelled because other team did not have enough players to play.

Under this scenario, in your local areas, do you get a half a game fee or whole game fee for short notice cancellation?

If you bug out on a hotel room or dentist appointment you would be charged!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 11:54am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Recently had a game cancelled 3 hours before tip off and prior to arriving at the game. Game was cancelled because other team did not have enough players to play.



Under this scenario, in your local areas, do you get a half a game fee or whole game fee for short notice cancellation?



If you bug out on a hotel room or dentist appointment you would be charged!


I would pay my officials. As an official I would be asking for payment since I couldn't accept any other game at that time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 12:01pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,861
It use to be in the OhioHSAA contracts that if the game was canceled after the officials left for the game they were to be paid the entire game fee. But without telling anyone the OhioHSAA changed its contracts about five years ago such that only if the game was canceled after the officials arrived were they to get paid. Mark, Jr., and I learned about the contract language change the hard way: We were 45 minutes into a 90 minute drive to officiate a girls' JV basketball game on a Saturday afternoon when we were called by the Home AD. The Visitors, were only a 20 minute drive from the Home school, canceled the game because the parents of the Visitors thought it was too cold, , to travel in a school bus.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 12:26pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 20,898
Canceled Games ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Recently had a game canceled 3 hours before tip off and prior to arriving at the game. Game was canceled because other team did not have enough players to play. Under this scenario, in your local areas, do you get a half a game fee or whole game fee for short notice cancellation?
If we show up at the site, we get the full fee. Canceled before we get there, no fee.

Almost forty years ago I had a freshman assignment, got to the site, home team was there, my partner was there, got dressed, and waited. Some snow showers came through the state and the visiting team decided not to make the bus ride. Both of us got full fees. Since the home team was dressed and ready to go, I asked the head varsity coach if he wanted me to hang around and officiate a couple of intrasquad scrimmage periods. For years after that he never gave me any problems, even though he was known as a hothead. A little good will goes a long way.

Also in ancient times, before cell phones were invented, I had a junior varsity assignment on a Saturday night. Started snowing in mid afternoon. I called the school and, of course, on a Saturday, there's nobody there. I called my assigner, nobody home (Christmas shopping). Figuring (correctly) bad road conditions, I leave about forty-five minutes earlier than I normally would for this site. I get there, no game, but the junior varsity cheerleading coach is there, and the police officer (who stands in the corner) is there, they hadn't been contacted. I get home hours later (the ride home was really treacherous) and my wife tells me that the school called to cancel about thirty minutes after I had left home. I called my assigner, told me he would get back to me early the next week. He did, telling me that because the school called me (they said that I had left home too early) they weren't going to pay me. My assigner said that it was out of his hands, the one and only time that he ever disappointed me.

Now, with Arbiter access to athletic director's email and cell phone numbers, we are advised to call if we think that there may be weather related cancellations, and of course, they have Arbiter access to our email and cell phone numbers.

In my new life as a subvarsity official (thank God that they only shoot horses in my condition), retired from my day job, I did my first ever board assigned middle school mid afternoon game yesterday. Visiting team walked in the gym twenty minutes past game time. My partner, a middle school veteran (he's a high school teacher, gets out of work early) told me that once or twice a season middle school teams just don't show up (not due to bad weather, but scheduling errors, bus issues, etc.) but we always still get paid.

By the way, my first ever board assigned middle school game: very late start, no possession arrow at the table, no scorebook at table, just a clipboard with a sheet of blank paper.

I had a blast. Kids were all enthusiastic, coaches coached. I ran an errand on the way home (bought chicken scratch at a feed store near the site) and still got home before 6:00 p.m. with $63.05 in my Arbiter account.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Dec 19, 2018 at 12:32pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 04:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,841
Nevada pays one game and travel if there is a cancelation after the officials have begun to drive to the game site.
If the school admin can contact the assignor or the officials prior to departure, they wont be charged anything. Of course, the school needs to have a decent reason for canceling.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 04:39pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Recently had a game cancelled 3 hours before tip off and prior to arriving at the game. Game was cancelled because other team did not have enough players to play.

Under this scenario, in your local areas, do you get a half a game fee or whole game fee for short notice cancellation?

If you bug out on a hotel room or dentist appointment you would be charged!
What would the penalty be in your area if the officials had to pull out 3 hour before game time and the game had to be cancelled?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 09:01pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,948
There is not standard or one-size-fits-all policy here. Some schools will pay you anyways. Others barely will send you anything. It really depends on what the assignor demands or what the school feels is fair.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael Mick Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2018, 07:42am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
There is not standard or one-size-fits-all policy here. Some schools will pay you anyways. Others barely will send you anything. It really depends on what the assignor demands or what the school feels is fair.



Peace

I've had this happen with conference games that I assign. I pay those officials when the reasoning isn't what one would call "an act of God."

Last spring an AD forgot about an academic event and the schools agreed to move the game to a later date with about 3 days notice. I sent checks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2018, 05:47pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 20,898
Jinxed ...

This thread jinxed me.

As I'm walking into the gym this afternoon (thirty minutes before game time) for a freshman game I get a call from the athletic director canceling the game.

Holiday tournament mix up.

I'm getting paid.

Both teams were there.

I ended up working a four period one person scrimmage.

Was home before 5:00 p.m. and will get a check for $63.05.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Dec 20, 2018 at 06:03pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2018, 09:11pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
This thread jinxed me.

As I'm walking into the gym this afternoon (thirty minutes before game time) for a freshman game I get a call from the athletic director canceling the game.

Holiday tournament mix up.

I'm getting paid.

Both teams were there.

I ended up working a four period one person scrimmage.

Was home before 5:00 p.m. and will get a check for $63.05.


$63.05 for a H.S. Freshmen game??!!

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2018, 09:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
$63.05 for a H.S. Freshmen game??!!

MTD, Sr.
He did work solo.

Here, an official who works solo on games where there should be two will get 1.5x the normal rate.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2018, 11:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
He did work solo...
Billy will definitely correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gonna guess $63.05 is the standard 2-person rate for subvarsity in Connecticut, so there was no hazard pay on top.

It's just about that for subvarsity in Mass. too.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2018, 07:53am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 20,898
All Dressed Up With No Place To Go ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
Billy will definitely correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gonna guess $63.05 is the standard 2-person rate for subvarsity in Connecticut.
Correct. Junior varsity. Freshman. Middle school.

We have two middle school leagues that play an "extra" ten minute running time period after the "real" game allowing the kids that didn't get a chance to play in the "real" game a chance to play. Each official gets an additional $15.76. Win for the kids, win for the officials ($78.81), but it's the worst ten minutes of basketball that you've ever seen in your entire life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
He did work solo. Here, an official who works solo on games where there should be two will get 1.5x the normal rate.
Correct, 1.5 fee under "normal" one person circumstances. But this wasn't "normal".

In my case, I showed up at the site (actually got the cell phone call canceling the game while I was in the gym looking for someone to unlock the locker room door). My partner never made it to the site, he just stayed home.

I knew that I was getting paid, I could have just got back into my car and gone home. But there were two teams (actually four, both junior varsity teams were also at the site, as well as the freshman teams) on the court, dressed for the game, and table crew (students) was ready to go. Since I already made the ride to the site and planned my day around the game, I figured "What's the rush?", and voluntarily offered to work a few scrimmage periods, it was accepted, and I got dressed.

I hadn't worked a one person game in over thirty years, and had forgotten how physically easy (I've got a bad bone spur in my ankle) it was (free throw line to free throw line), so after one period I offered to work three more (total of two junior varsity and two freshman) periods.

A little bit good will goes a long way. This morning I got a thank you email from both the athletic director and my assigner.

There's nothing wrong with doing it "for the kids" some of the time (as long as it's totally voluntary and just some of the time). Another win win situation, the kids got to play and I got paid to do something that I like to (but didn't have to) do. No need for the extra one half fee for a one person game. It was my choice, I could have just gone home. The 1.5 fee never even entered my mind.

Let the "stone throwing" begin.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Dec 21, 2018 at 01:25pm.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2018, 03:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Correct. Junior varsity. Freshman. Middle school.

We have two middle school leagues that play an "extra" ten minute running time period after the "real" game allowing the kids that didn't get a chance to play in the "real" game a chance to play. Each official gets an additional $15.76. Win for the kids, win for the officials ($78.81), but it's the worst ten minutes of basketball that you've ever seen in your entire life.
Please tell me it's at least with a running clock, like Iowa does it...
__________________
Throwing people out of a game is like riding a bike- once you get the hang of it, it can be a lot of fun.- Ron Luciano
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 21, 2018, 04:03pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 20,898
The Running Man (1987) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattmets View Post
Please tell me it's at least with a running clock, like Iowa does it...
Yes it is, an extra ten minute running time period for those players who didn't play in the "real" game, not all middle school games, just two leagues that we work.

Each official gets an additional $15.76.

Officiate ten minutes of the worst basketball one has ever seen in one's life at a rate comparable to $94.56 an hour.

I'll do that any day of the week that ends in "day".

I'll even work these games on days of the week that don't end in "day".
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Dec 21, 2018 at 05:19pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Notice Adam Basketball 0 Thu Mar 12, 2015 02:00pm
Cancellation with a twist Rich Basketball 5 Mon Jan 23, 2012 06:56am
Snow cancellation? JohnDorian37 Basketball 84 Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:41am
Game Cancellation Notification lloybra Basketball 5 Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:36pm
game cancellation chartrusepengui Baseball 5 Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:08am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1