Rich's area - Is it time to drop the 3-man officiating crew?

[ilyazhito]

I agree with teaching 3-man after the first year. This would allow the newer officials to see the connections between 2 and 3-person officiating (the 2-person Trail position is more similar to the Center position of a 3-person crew than to its 3-person namesake), get familiar with the 3-person system (with possible reinforcement in non-scholastic leagues and/or subvarsity games), and be considered as varsity alternate officials. 3rd years might then start seeing a limited varsity schedule (with more assignments depending on ability and availability), and thus there will be a pipeline of qualified 3-person officials to supplement and eventually replace the veterans.

ODog, what is the situation like in MA when it comes to 3-person? I know that MA uses 3-person in the playoffs, that some varsity games are 2-person, and that the MIAA handbook addresses 3-person game fees by saying they should be no more than 85% of the 2-person fee. Are 3-person games between bigger schools, private school teams, or are they randomly spread across the board? Is it different in different boards (Board 27 doing more 3-person games than Board 54)?

[BayStateRef]

There is very little 3-person in Mass. A couple of leagues use 3 in February as a prep for the tourney. I just heard from a partner (but have not confirmed) that one league is using 3-person crews for all varsity games this season for both boys and girls. Private schools use only 2 as well.

IAABO boards do not assign, so it doesn’t matter to which board you belong — only which leagues you work.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

what is the situation like in MA when it comes to 3-person?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I agree with teaching 3-man after the first year. This would allow the newer officials to see the connections between 2 and 3-person officiating (the 2-person Trail position is more similar to the Center position of a 3-person crew than to its 3-person namesake), get familiar with the 3-person system (with possible reinforcement in non-scholastic leagues and/or subvarsity games), and be considered as varsity alternate officials. 3rd years might then start seeing a limited varsity schedule (with more assignments depending on ability and availability), and thus there will be a pipeline of qualified 3-person officials to supplement and eventually replace the veterans.

It is up to you to decide what you want to know as an official. It is not up to anyone to require you to learn anything. There are plenty of resources to learn any mechanics system you wish. I did not wait until anything when I started in the 90s to learn 3-person. I went to camps, read books and watched officials work. I picked it up very early.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

I was referring to what Raymond said earlier. Raymond: "I still believe brand new beginners need to be taught 2-man exclusively if that's all that's going to be working in their first season. Teach them 3-man after their first season." If associations were to teach 3-person on a consistent basis starting with each official's second year, it would make the transition to the varsity level and/or playoffs easier, simply because the official in question would have been familiar with 3-person mechanics from either the classroom sessions, on-court practice, or both. This might also be the way to get 2-person areas to transition to 3-person, by making the membership as a whole knowledgeable enough in 3-person mechanics to mitigate the growing pains that Camron alluded to.

[JRutledge]

I got that, but the point is that it is ultimately up to the official to seek whatever training they can get. Heck officials half the time do not even seek training in my experience. So I am happy anytime they seek anything, but caution as well that they need to learn the stuff they are doing and not totally concentrated on something they may never get an opportunity to try out. But again I live in an area where we have many options to get training and it is up to each person to decide when to take advantage. I teach a new official's class in the fall and there are many camps and association meetings to attend and that is up to the official to decide. But I do agree with Raymond to an extent.

Peace

[ODog]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

ODog, what is the situation like in MA when it comes to 3-person? I know that MA uses 3-person in the playoffs, that some varsity games are 2-person, and that the MIAA handbook addresses 3-person game fees by saying they should be no more than 85% of the 2-person fee. Are 3-person games between bigger schools, private school teams, or are they randomly spread across the board? Is it different in different boards (Board 27 doing more 3-person games than Board 54)?

Contrary to what BayStateRef said, there is plenty of 3-person in Mass., at least in my area. More than 60 percent of my games are 3-whistle. Maybe more than 70 percent. Some schools use exclusively three all season, while some only use it for 3-4 home games just as a primer in the event their teams make the tourney. But all schools play some 3-whistle games. Doesn't matter if it's large inner city boys programs or terrible small-school girls programs.

It's very prevalent in our area, and moreso every year. And all officials get the full fee. The 85-percent-fee thing went out the window by vote of our county ADs a few years ago. Two- or three-whistle, doesn't matter: You get $84.

But it does seem to depend on where you live in the state, as neighboring counties, some of whose teams play in the same leagues as our teams, don't pay for three officials as often and don't pay full fee when they do.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by ODog

Contrary to what BayStateRef said, there is plenty of 3-person in Mass., at least in my area. More than 60 percent of my games are 3-whistle. Maybe more than 70 percent. Some schools use exclusively three all season, while some only use it for 3-4 home games just as a primer in the event their teams make the tourney. But all schools play some 3-whistle games. Doesn't matter if it's large inner city boys programs or terrible small-school girls programs.

It's very prevalent in our area, and moreso every year. And all officials get the full fee. The 85-percent-fee thing went out the window by vote of our county ADs a few years ago. Two- or three-whistle, doesn't matter: You get $84.

But it does seem to depend on where you live in the state, as neighboring counties, some of whose teams play in the same leagues as our teams, don't pay for three officials as often and don't pay full fee when they do.

That's interesting. Where in MA do you call games? I'm curious, because Bay State Ref's profile says that he's in the Boston area. Bay State said that there is no relationship between what IAABO board you are in and the leagues you work. Is that true?

What would it take to get 3-person implemented universally at the varsity level in MA? Timewise, I say it would happen in the next decade.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Crosscountry,
The leagues that use it here are our area's stronger public school leagues. Our shot clock operator pool is pretty strong out here. Most of the experienced ones go thru at least half a season without a CE involving the clock. The most common one I've seen is inadvertent reset but they're able to correct pretty quickly using recall or they happened to catch a glance of where it was at prior to reset.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Crosscountry,

The leagues that use it here are our area's stronger public school leagues. Our shot clock operator pool is pretty strong out here. Most of the experienced ones go thru at least half a season without a CE involving the clock. The most common one I've seen is inadvertent reset but they're able to correct pretty quickly using recall or they happened to catch a glance of where it was at prior to reset.

I’m not saying your shot clock operators are necessarily good or bad. But they are human, and having that third official dramatically reduces P-subB (probability of bufoonery). Furthermore, at the end of the day, the officials are responsible for SC decisions, not clock operators. All the more reason that games with 2-person crews and shot clocks are really a lot to ask of a crew. I would know; I’m living that headache in RI this year.

I’m just surprised that such a powerhouse state as CA isn’t universally using 3-person by now. Got it, looks like the big leagues in the LA area are. But what about the smaller leagues and other sections? For example, isn’t most of the San Diego section still 2-person? San Diego is the eighth largest metro area in the country!


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