To tea or not to tea....

UNIgiantslayers · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 12:33pm

...that is the question.

Had a drink with a friend of mine who officiates after his game on Saturday. Here's the situation.

1st half, GV game. B coach within 2 min stands up to disagree with an out of bounds call, and yells "Are you kidding me????" My buddy was going to whack him, but partner was standing right there and gave him a stern verbal warning. Later in the half, B1 player pushes A1 in the back on a rebound off a free throw. My buddy gets her for a foul and the following exchange occurs on the FT down at the other end where my buddy is T.
Coach: What did she do wrong there?
Buddy: She pushed her in the back on the rebound.
Coach: Are you sure?
Buddy: Girl started on the block and ended up below the basket because of your player. 100%.
Coach: Are you sure she didn't get out-jumped there?
Buddy: Yep. We're done here.
Coach: She's a D1 volleyball recruit. She could out jump her.
Buddy: Well that wasn't a D1 rebound.
Coach: You're awful chippy tonight.
Buddy: Coach, if you want to discuss it, I'm happy to but don't think I'm not going to banter when you're arguing a good call on the other end of the court.
Coach: We'll see when your grade comes out for the game and I send this tape to the state.

At that point my buddy T's him up. To give some background, the coach is always a prick (I've had him many times), always complaining about good calls, and just doesn't know how to ask a question without being condescending. My buddy has whacked him many times and was trying to have a conversation and avoid a T. He was worked up after the game thinking he shouldn't have let it go on for that long, but I told him it was a conversation during a free throw so I have no problem with it. Also, anytime one of our compadres can get a good jab in at this guy, I fully support it.

My question is this: he probably let it go for too long, but do you have any issue having a conversation with the coach knowing that he's a prick and probably doesn't deserve any of your time?

SNIPERBBB · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 12:59pm

Makes no sense to get into something that is not going to end well.

SC Official · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:13pm

Did they put the verbal warning in the book? No reason to give a "stern verbal warning" if you're not going to make it official.

Depending on the tone and gestures he used when saying "Are you kidding me?" (yelling across the court, hands in the air, etc.), there's a chance I would've given him his official warning there. Unlikely to whack him if that's his first offense (we're supposed to warn unless the offense is "major").

If he didn't get his warning there, he would have after continuing on following "We're done here."

I could do without the "D1 rebound" comment from your buddy, but that's just because of my personality. To each his own; the coach still has to behave.

Under any circumstance, he's not getting past "You're awful chippy tonight" without a technical foul.

BillyMac · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:19pm

Seems like a normal progression to the technical foul. Oral warning for first outburst. Official later answers questions by coach. Oral stop sign comes out ("We're done here."). Coach keep chatting it up, says some magic words, and gets the technical foul.

The only the thing I might have done differently (in hindsight) would be to make the first oral warning a written warning in the book. That probably would have looked better on the report.

BillyMac · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official

I could do without the "D1 rebound" comment

Agree. But sometimes when we're pissed off we say things that we shouldn't. Experienced officials should be able to control that, but sometimes stuff slips out. We're only human.

Oral instead of written warning, and the comment? 99% of this technical foul is on the coach. The conversation initiated by the coach was a series of questions that many of us will often respond to, so that had no impact on the technical foul.

BillyMac · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official

Under any circumstance, he's not getting past "You're awful chippy tonight" without a technical foul.

My skin is a little thicker, I would have waited for the grade and tape comment, and then the technical foul would come "fast as lightning", with a possible "finger breaker" signal.

(Still got Carl Douglas's Kung Fu Fighting on my mind).

UNIgiantslayers · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My skin is a little thicker, I would have waited for the grade and tape comment, and then the technical foul would come "fast as lightning", with a possible "finger breaker" signal.

(Still got Carl Douglas's Kung Fu Fighting on my mind).

I watched the tape, and it was NOT, in fact, fast as lighting. He let B1 finish her free throw motion, the shot go in, then he blew it dead.

For the record, it was a great call on the push in the back.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:48pm

I guess I would have to know the history of the coach. I have had similar exchanges and it ends after the warning. I probably would have also not explained that much if the coach is usually a prick on some level.

Overall I do not have an issue with the coach getting a T. The coach made the situation personal after being given an explanation. At some point, shut up already. You got what you act like you wanted. You do not have to agree.

Peace

SC Official · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My skin is a little thicker, I would have waited for the grade and tape comment, and then the technical foul would come "fast as lightning", with a possible "finger breaker" signal.

(Still got Carl Douglas's Kung Fu Fighting on my mind).

Has nothing to do with thin skin. Has everything to do with the fact that he already would have had an official warning if I was on the game (he made a comment immediately after the official telling him "we're done"). And unlike too many officials, when I warn the coach/bench, I am 100% serious that I will follow through.

Raymond · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 02:34pm

After "Are you sure" my response is "you asked a question, I gave you an answer" then I'm distancing myself from the a$$-hole.

Any references to grades or contacting a supervisor are an automatic T, no matter what went on previously in the conversation.

Raymond · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. But sometimes when we're pissed off we say things that we shouldn't. Experienced officials should be able to control that, but sometimes stuff slips out. We're only human.
....

Exactly. Funny how the tag of "professionalism" is only supposed to apply to officials, but never the adults who have daily direct supervision over our student-athletes.

SC Official · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond

Exactly. Funny how the tag of "professionalism" is only supposed to apply to officials, but never the adults who have daily direct supervision over our student-athletes.

Because "it's an emotional game."

Because "it's for the kids."

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond

After "Are you sure" my response is "you asked a question, I gave you an answer" then I'm distancing myself from the a$$-hole.

Any references to grades or contacting a supervisor are an automatic T, no matter what went on previously in the conversation.

That probably would have been my almost exact response. I tell coaches that want to argue about a situation they asked me about, "Why did you ask the question? If you did not want to know the answer, then you should not have asked." Then I walk away.

I am not going to act like I am guilty for answering a question that they feel was reasonable at the time.

Peace

BillyMac · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond

Funny how the tag of "professionalism" is only supposed to apply to officials, but never the adults who have daily direct supervision over our student-athletes.

Back in my coaching days, our athletic director used to tell all his coaches that an occasional slip of the tongue, while not acceptable, but understandable, is part of being human, but as a coach, and teacher, it has to only be an occasional slip of the tongue.

#olderthanilook · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 10, 2018, 04:52pm

THIS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

1st half, GV game. B coach within 2 min stands up to disagree with an out of bounds call, and yells "Are you kidding me????" My buddy was going to whack him, but partner was standing right there and gave him a stern verbal warning. Later in the half, B1 player pushes A1 in the back on a rebound off a free throw. My buddy gets her for a foul and the following exchange occurs on the FT down at the other end where my buddy is T.
Coach: What did she do wrong there?
Buddy: She pushed her in the back on the rebound.
Coach: Are you sure?
Buddy: Girl started on the block and ended up below the basket because of your player. 100%.
Coach: Are you sure she didn't get out-jumped there?
Buddy: Yep. We're done here.

THEN THIS ----- >>> WHY???? I thought he said "We're done here.".

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Coach: She's a D1 volleyball recruit. She could out jump her.
Buddy: Well that wasn't a D1 rebound.
Coach: You're awful chippy tonight.
Buddy: Coach, if you want to discuss it, I'm happy to but don't think I'm not going to banter when you're arguing a good call on the other end of the court.
Coach: We'll see when your grade comes out for the game and I send this tape to the state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

At that point my buddy T's him up.

I really don't understand this part. If I were the coach, I'd likely think your partner was baiting me for continuing to banter after telling me 'we are done'. Then, of all things, he makes the smartalec comment "well, that wasn't a D1 rebound". (I have to admit it's a witty comeback, though).