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-   -   NFHS Part 2 Exam (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104162-nfhs-part-2-exam.html)

Nevadaref Thu Nov 29, 2018 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 1026507)
This.

NCAA tests and quizzes actually ask 'real world,' situational cases that force you into the rules and case books.

The answers for both are D.
These are NFHS rules exams. They test you on the word for word text in the book, not scenarios asking you to make a ruling on a situation.
Basically, if the text is in the book, it is a correct answer on these exams.

billyu2 Thu Nov 29, 2018 04:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1026506)
Interesting. I was thinking of this...



I think I mixed up this, where a made goal does make the ball dead, even with an airborne shooter but expiration of time doesn't.

I think the primary point on these questions is that they are all generally true. There are nuanced exceptions. But, that is reading more into the questions than is there.

Camron, I think we discussed this confusion last year. Even if the try was good the ball is not dead until the airborne shooter returns to the floor. Rule 6-7 Exception is correct and the supporting case play is 6.7.4. In part, "Airborne shooter A1's foul is a player control foul which does cause the ball to become dead immediately . . . even if the ball had gone through the basket before the foul."

Camron Rust Thu Nov 29, 2018 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyu2 (Post 1026510)
Camron, I think we discussed this confusion last year. Even if the try was good the ball is not dead until the airborne shooter returns to the floor. Rule 6-7 Exception is correct and the supporting case play is 6.7.4. In part, "Airborne shooter A1's foul is a player control foul which does cause the ball to become dead immediately . . . even if the ball had gone through the basket before the foul."

I disagree. There is no ambiguity on a made goal making the ball dead....there are no exceptions attached to that line.

You skipped a part in the case citation that changes the meaning.

6.7.4's point about making the ball dead immediately is right. The underlying situation is that the shot was still in flight. They go on to say that even if it wasn't and had already gone in, the goal still doesn't count. That statement does not support the claim that the ball is still live after a made goal.

Matt S. Thu Nov 29, 2018 05:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1026508)
The answers for both are D.
These are NFHS rules exams. They test you on the word for word text in the book, not scenarios asking you to make a ruling on a situation.
Basically, if the text is in the book, it is a correct answer on these exams.

I agree, and that's how I responded. But the answer was not D (at least for one of them...I don't have my paper test with me).

Unfortunately, in my state, they do not provide the correct answer upon submission thru the online portal.

billyu2 Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1026500)
An airborne shooter doesn't extend the live ball. it is dead once time expires and the shot ends. The airborne shooter element only extends the opportunity for a personal foul where a dead ball normally eliminates the possibility of personal foul.

B is also true....you blow the whistle, the ball is dead, in general.

This would be true in the case of basket interference by a defender. See 4.19.6 Situation A. Then go to 4.19.9 Situation A and you will see the goal scored by A1 does not cause the ball to be dead. The ball becomes dead when A1 commits a player control foul while returning to the floor.

billyu2 Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1026512)
I disagree. There is no ambiguity on a made goal making the ball dead....there are no exceptions attached to that line.

You skipped a part in the case citation that changes the meaning.

6.7.4's point about making the ball dead immediately is right. The underlying situation is that the shot was still in flight. They go on to say that even if it wasn't and had already gone in, the goal still doesn't count. That statement does not support the claim that the ball is still live after a made goal.

Correct. The exception is attached to 6-7-7 in regards to a foul which occurs by a defender during a try for goal or by an airborne shooter returning to the floor.

bucky Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripes33 (Post 1026495)
64. The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
A) Time expires for a quarter or period, unless the ball is in flight for a try for goal.
B) An official's whistle is blown.
C) A player-control foul or team-control foul is called.
D) All of the above.

65. The ball is dead when:
A) A violation is committed by the free-throw team.
B) An official's whistle sounds.
C) Time expires for a quarter, except when a try is in flight.
D) All of the above.

Trying to decipher all the posts. Which answers are true? Did someone try to explain that 64A and 65C are false because there is no mention of the shooter being airborne?

thumpferee Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1026568)
Trying to decipher all the posts. Which answers are true? Did someone try to explain that 64A and 65C are false because there is no mention of the shooter being airborne?

Yes. In post #6

bucky Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1026570)
Yes. In post #6

When someone shoots and makes a desperation heave before the buzzer, and they do not leave or jump off the ground, are you telling me a ref is not going to count it b/c they were not airborne? Seems laughable if I am understanding that is what posters are saying. And if it is correct by rule, no ref would still enforce that (just as my tagline indicates).

Mregor Sun Dec 02, 2018 01:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1026573)
When someone shoots and makes a desperation heave before the buzzer, and they do not leave or jump off the ground, are you telling me a ref is not going to count it b/c they were not airborne? Seems laughable if I am understanding that is what posters are saying.

I don't see where you get that from??? I don't think anyone said that at any point. See Camron's Post #7. They are all true. I just took the test on Wed but haven't received results back. I'll reply in a week with my "official" scoring w/references.

SNIPERBBB Sun Dec 02, 2018 06:35am

In 64 the wording is important. The ball becomes or remains dead when...

Fundamentals of basketball:
16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)

Raymond Sun Dec 02, 2018 09:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1026573)
When someone shoots and makes a desperation heave before the buzzer, and they do not leave or jump off the ground, are you telling me a ref is not going to count it b/c they were not airborne? Seems laughable if I am understanding that is what posters are saying. And if it is correct by rule, no ref would still enforce that (just as my tagline indicates).

What does that have to do with the ball becoming dead, which is what the two questions are about?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

bucky Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mregor (Post 1026590)
I don't see where you get that from??? I don't think anyone said that at any point. See Camron's Post #7. They are all true. I just took the test on Wed but haven't received results back. I'll reply in a week with my "official" scoring w/references.

You are saying that they are all true. Raymond, in post 6, did not agree with that and gave different answers. Then the thread got wacky and things were lost in translation. So, clearly there was disagreement at one point.

Camron Rust Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1026592)
In 64 the wording is important. The ball becomes or remains dead when...

Fundamentals of basketball:
16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)

Yet, if you blow your whistle to address a hazard on the floor, confer with the scorer, fix a clock error, observe blood on a player, stop the game for an injury, etc. the ball becomes dead when the official blows the whistle. Lots of ways for that to happen.

The correct answer to both is "D...all of the above". All of those events generally cause the ball to become dead. Don't try to parse the words to find a flaw, particularity when two of the 3 are clearly true. By trying to argue that there are two right answers and say the question is bad is just trying to read too much into the question.


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