D3 Player Takes Cheap Shot

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I don’t work college basketball. But based on my desire for humility and some sage advice offered on this forum last year, if I ever do work college, I will refuse to offer that fact when offering any opinions about officiating. To do otherwise is fruitless showboating.

It is one thing to clarify the rules set in question. That’s perfectly ok. But “I’m a college...” and “My college assignor says...”. are not helpful additions to any officiating discussion.

My 2¢.

Working college doesn't tell me much about an official, especially lower-level college. There are many "college officials" that don't qualify themselves by stating what levels/how many games they work, and there are many that are hired for reasons other than pure ability. I know more than one NAIA/JUCO/D3 official that I wouldn't want to work a high-level HS boys game with.

Mentioning that you're a "college official" when irrelevant is nothing more than big-timing.

[UNIgiantslayers]

It feels like we're having two separate debates here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I don’t work college basketball. But based on my desire for humility and some sage advice offered on this forum last year, if I ever do work college, I will refuse to offer that fact when offering any opinions about officiating. To do otherwise is fruitless showboating.

It is one thing to clarify the rules set in question. That’s perfectly ok. But “I’m a college...” and “My college assignor says...”. are not helpful additions to any officiating discussion.

My 2¢.

Then never go to anyone's camp. Never listen to them about anything they tell you to do at that camp. Never listen to a supervisor that tells you what they will do if the coach calls you. It will never help you or anyone because every single camp I have ever attended at any level, the people are telling you what they do or what has happened to them in their career or their positions. And they definitely are going to say things when the game is at the very level they are directly involved with. Heck, not sure why people on this site if they only want to talk about the level they know.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

...“My college assignor says...”.
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Is often relevant when discussing rules/plays from college games. I do have a college supervisor who sent out an email about this play and told us exactly how it wants it handled and what he wants included in the game report. He is also a supervisor who will tell us that he doesn't care what our philosophies and thoughts are once he chimes in on a subject.

[Rich]

I said it was a flagrant technical based on one viewing of the film.

In retrospect, after watching the replay, I said I was wrong -- that the ball had not completely cleared the net and it was still a live ball.

But had the ball completely checked the net, it would've been a flagrant technical and calling it an F2 would've been incorrect.

The thing I'm questioning about Jeff's posts is this -- he seemed to say that calling it a live ball foul and being incorrect is somehow better than calling it a dead ball flagrant technical and being wrong. My point is.....wrong is wrong. What's the difference?

As someone who worked enough "low level college games" over the years to tell me I 100% completely hated everything about it, let me just say that you folks that do those games are more than welcome to them.

[Raymond]

I love my low-level college games. I get paid at least 3 times as much as my HS games and the majority of those games are within a 90 minute drive for me.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I love my low-level college games. I get paid at least 3 times as much as my HS games and the majority of those games are within a 90 minute drive for me.

Certainly depends a lot on where you live.

When I was working those games the closest school was an hour away, the rest were at least two. The longest trip was over five hours.

Leaving work early to work bad basketball, dress in a storage closet in the middle of BFE, and ref in front of empty crowds wasn't worth it.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I love my low-level college games. I get paid at least 3 times as much as my HS games and the majority of those games are within a 90 minute drive for me.

Ah, the benefit of east coast campus density.

Things are not quite as cost effective in Wisconsin and Kansas. Similar pay but a lot more mileage and late night drives.

I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know. I just don’t want aspiring officials north and west of the Ohio River to get a false sense of JUCO and D3 profitability.

Then again those $55 high school games in Wisconsin make a 300 mile round trip for a D3 game in January look not so bad...


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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I love my low-level college games. I get paid at least 3 times as much as my HS games and the majority of those games are within a 90 minute drive for me.

We have some longer drives than that, but I would rather go 3 hours to be paid way more than a high school game I get paid only $70 for. And one conference I work gives travel pay too.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

The thing I'm questioning about Jeff's posts is this -- he seemed to say that calling it a live ball foul and being incorrect is somehow better than calling it a dead ball flagrant technical and being wrong. My point is.....wrong is wrong. What's the difference?

That is not exactly what I said. You put a lot of stuff into my comments.

Let me make this clear. Lower level college basketball often does not have a monitor. Lower level college does not have rules different than D1, but there is an expectation to call the exact same things as they do at that level. When you do not call things like the D1, coaches can and will go nuts, even when you do not have a monitor. So if you rule something like a Flagrant Technical and it is not "there" they might make an issue out of that. College coaches can be pettier than high school coaches. And at least for me, college coaches do not know you as well as high school coaches, you cannot just tell them anything.

Originally Posted by Rich

As someone who worked enough "low level college games" over the years to tell me I 100% completely hated everything about it, let me just say that you folks that do those games are more than welcome to them.

It is better than working many college football games and being there all day for less pay in some cases. At least I am at a game less than a couple of hours and it is warm inside. So to each his own.

Peace

[LRZ]

Raymond, solely out of curiosity, what was your supervisor's take on the play?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by LRZ

Raymond, solely out of curiosity, what was your supervisor's take on the play?

He wants the play ruled a "fight". A fight by definition is a Flagrant 2 Technical.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

He wants the play ruled a "fight". A fight by definition is a Flagrant 2 Technical.

I don't know much about NCAA rules but it certainly fits the definition of an NFHS fight: Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as: An attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Raymond

He wants the play ruled a "fight". A fight by definition is a Flagrant 2 Technical.

And you know what? I didn't consider that, but I agree with him.

Note - we have very little small college stuff here and almost all those that do it are driving huge distances routinely - up to 4 hours one way. I used to do 6-10 JuCo games every year, but those game paid barely more than HS games and were terrible to work.

[Rich]

Likewise, the shooter with the shooting arm on the baseline side - the lead is probably getting the best, if not the only look.


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