"Torso"--as it relates to Charging

[bas2456]

How loosely do you define "torso" when officiating this play?

A1 catches a pass near the wing and starts a diagonal cut across the lane and toward the basket with the ball. B1 is standing in the lane with her arms straight up. B1 isn't 100% square with A1. A1 contacts B1 as she goes up for a shot and B1 falls down.

How likely are you to have a PC foul on this play, if I've described it well enough for you to imagine? The rule says that contact must be on the "torso", so I guess it's what you consider to be the torso, right?

I passed on this play last night, as B1 did nothing wrong and I had the contact on the shoulder vs square on the torso.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bas2456

The rule says that contact must be on the "torso",

I wouldn't read that too literally,

As described, the contact in your play was likely a PC foul.

From some web site: Use torso in a sentence. noun. The torso is the trunk or the part of the human body that doesn't include the head, arms or legs. An example of the torso is the shoulders down to the hips of a person.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bas2456

How loosely do you define "torso" when officiating this play?

A1 catches a pass near the wing and starts a diagonal cut across the lane and toward the basket with the ball. B1 is standing in the lane with her arms straight up. B1 isn't 100% square with A1. A1 contacts B1 as she goes up for a shot and B1 falls down.

....

What I imagine is exactly what you typed, that B1 simply fell down, not that A1's contact disadvantaged her or caused her to fall. Had this play in a Men's college game. I was in the C with the play coming towards me and I could see clearly that the defender threw himself to the ground upon contact. My mentee in the Lead called a PC foul. We talked about it after the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bas2456

B1 isn't 100% square with A1.

Let's examine this situation before the contact occurred.

To obtain an initial legal guarding position: The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.

Not "100% square" isn't the proper question. In proper rule terminology (a Point of Emphasis this year), was the front of the B1's torso facing A1?

Answer that and you'll have half of your interpretation.

Then move on to the contact for the final piece of the puzzle.

[DrPete]

First of all, the torso refers to the entire mid body area, the sides and back, not just the front of the body. To establish legal guarding position you do have to face your opponent initially, but not continually face her.

And to open another can of worms, doesn't establishing LGP primarily pertain to the right of the defender to move to maintain her defensive position (as long as it is not towards the offensive player)? If she is just standing there (with or without LGP), the ball handler does not have the right to charge into her. You have to make a judgement call on how much contact the dribbler created, but if she was at that spot, she is entitled to it and cannot be displaced from it.

What would be the call if a offensive player on the wing faked an outside shot, and then drove into the lane, a defensive player in the paint turned toward the basket expecting to rebound (and was stationary), and the ball handler charged into her from behind? What would be your call there?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Let's examine this situation before the contact occurred.

To obtain an initial legal guarding position: The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.

Not "100% square" isn't the proper question. In proper rule terminology (a Point of Emphasis this year), was the front of the B1's torso facing A1?

Answer that and you'll have half of your interpretation.

Then move on to the contact for the final piece of the puzzle.

None of that matters in this case as B1 is standing in the lane according to the OP.
ILGP only matters for plays in which there is movement by the defender. It grants additional rights, but is not necessary for a player to have a legal spot on the court.

In this play, B1 has the right to any spot on the floor provided that she got there first and without illegally contacting an opponent to reach it. She could be facing the basket in this play. She still cannot be displaced from that spot by an opponent. That is the only judgment the official needs to make in this situation. So how much contact A1 caused is the only factor in deciding if a foul occurred.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by DrPete

What would be the call if a offensive player on the wing faked an outside shot, and then drove into the lane, a defensive player in the paint turned toward the basket expecting to rebound (and was stationary), and the ball handler charged into her from behind? What would be your call there?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In this play, B1 has the right to any spot on the floor provided that she got there first and without illegally contacting an opponent to reach it. She could be facing the basket in this play. She still cannot be displaced from that spot by an opponent. That is the only judgment the official needs to make in this situation. So how much contact A1 caused is the only factor in deciding if a foul occurred.

Great posts. Great points. I knew this but got distracted by the phrase "100% square". Thank you.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by DrPete

... the torso refers to the entire mid body area, the sides and back, not just the front of the body.

Just picture the perfume bottles from Kim Kardashian's new line of perfume.

Christmas is coming guys. Here's an idea for a gift for your wife and/or girlfriend.

[DrPete]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just picture the perfume bottles from Kim Kardashian's new line of perfume.

Christmas is coming guys. Here's an idea for a gift for your wife and/or girlfriend.

Nice torso. I could see some illegal use of hands happening there!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by DrPete

Nice torso. I could see some illegal use of hands happening there!

It's a modern day version of Venus de Milo.

That Kim Kardashian is one classy lady, bringing the attention of a 2000 year old classic Greek statue to the modern masses.

She should get the Nobel Art Prize.