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-   -   Vid request: Duke vs Army - shooter loses control and touches again (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104130-vid-request-duke-vs-army-shooter-loses-control-touches-again.html)

BillyMac Wed Nov 14, 2018 08:43am
Big Bucks ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru (Post 1025964)
... one needs to establish some criteria for what is enough to prevent a player from releasing the ball on the try vs. a touch of the ball that the shooter still has the ability to release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1025855)
When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball.

If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation.
Paintguru: I see your point, but as is often stated here on the Forum, sometimes we just have to ref the game, that's why we get the big bucks.

bucky Wed Nov 14, 2018 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru (Post 1025964)
No there isn't, but one needs to establish some criteria for what is enough to prevent a player from releasing the ball on the try vs. a touch of the ball that the shooter still has the ability to release.
Guess I am missing something then. Use the criteria of the ball in relation to the hand(s) (as far as article 2). I just basically use that, not any other part of the body, momentum, off the floor, etc. NBD.

bucky Wed Nov 14, 2018 09:28pm
Below is link to game. Poor quality. Fast forward to the 31:00 mark. Play occurs at about 1:40 in the first half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LeSdhRTcJc

Nevadaref Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1025977)
Guess I am missing something then. Use the criteria of the ball in relation to the hand(s) (as far as article 2). I just basically use that, not any other part of the body, momentum, off the floor, etc. NBD.
You better use that one, since it is required by the rule.

bucky Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1026026)
You better use that one, since it is required by the rule.
Indeed it will. So, there could never be a held ball as a result of a prevented shot from a shooter on the floor. Wonder why they put that in there, especially when the game originated with set shots. Must be historical aspect...Mr. DeNucci? (inner BillyMac coming out of me, sorry)

bob jenkins Thu Nov 15, 2018 08:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1026028)
Indeed it will. So, there could never be a held ball as a result of a prevented shot from a shooter on the floor. Wonder why they put that in there, especially when the game originated with set shots. Must be historical aspect...Mr. DeNucci? (inner BillyMac coming out of me, sorry)
Speculating:

If the shooter hasn't left the floor, then the defense touching doesn't really cause a problem -- it's still "play on"

If the shooter is off the floor, and the defense's touching prevents a release, the the "result of the play" would be traveling -- and that's not really fair to the offense. So, go with the held ball.

bucky Thu Nov 15, 2018 04:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1026032)
Speculating:

If the shooter hasn't left the floor, then the defense touching doesn't really cause a problem -- it's still "play on"

If the shooter is off the floor, and the defense's touching prevents a release, the the "result of the play" would be traveling -- and that's not really fair to the offense. So, go with the held ball.
Yes, makes sense. I can still envision, and have seen, someone try to make a pass while on the floor and the resulting defender hand on the ball resulted in a travel by the offense. Rare of course and not one makes a stink on that type of play. I have also seen, mostly in lower level girls play, someone, while on the floor, try to shoot, and the defender has her hand on the ball. Then the offensive player "tries" to jump, and does barely, all while the defender has her hand on the ball.

Rare instances and again, not a big deal. Your angle makes good sense.


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