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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 09, 2018, 05:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolanjj68 View Post
Cardinal covers Loudoun and a few schools in PW County. The rest of the schools in PW County are covered by Bull Run.
Are the Cardinal schools the ones in Woodbridge (Gar-Field, Hylton, Freedom, Woodbridge), or are they different schools?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 09, 2018, 07:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If an individual official is allowed to join two organizations, and is actually in two organizations, both that he likes, plenty of good assignments, no political drama, fair membership responsibilities, fees, etc., no excessive meetings, etc., why wouldn't he just pick one and stick with it? What advantages does one get by being in two organizations? Just because one is allowed to do something doesn't necessarily mean that one should do so. Don't the logistics become burdensome belonging to two organizations? Double the meetings? Double the annual membership fees? Maintaining two different availability calendars? Dealing with two assigners?

Again, this is a completely foreign concept to me so please be patient and bear with me.
No different than being in multiple College conferences. Keep your Arbiter up-to-date.

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 09, 2018, 11:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
... being in multiple College conferences.
Would one be in multiple college conferences because one probably wouldn't get enough games for a "full schedule" from an assigner from just one college conference?

Back when the University of Connecticut was in the Big East (otherwise known as the good old days) I could have sworn that Big East games were officiated by a small group of officials because I kept seeing the same officials several times a season, at Gampel Pavilion (Storrs UCONN campus), at the XL Center (Hartford, CT), or on the road on television. With the small number of guys that I kept on seeing over and over again, and with the large number of schools in the Big East, it seems like these guys had a pretty full schedule just the in Big East.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Sep 10, 2018 at 06:21am.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:50am
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One might get a full schedule, but John Clougherty, the former coordinator of the ACC, limited the amount of games that his officials could receive, ostensibly to keep them fresh, so many ACC officials would join other conferences to get games when there were gaps in their ACC schedules. The same thinking might have applied for other conferences as well.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Would one be in multiple college conferences because one probably wouldn't get enough games for a "full schedule" from an assigner from just one college conference?

....
Officials get in multiple conferences because officials don't make their own schedules nor do conferences pay the same fees, so officials make themselves available to multiple supervisors.

It's not rocket science Billy. We are INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS. Are officials supposed to sit at home and only work games on nights that a specific conference has games? When conference play begins, half the teams are on the road and half are at home. That means that conference only needs at the most 24 officials. Should the same 24 officials work every game for a particular conference? How about D2 and D3 conferences? Who should cover those games? Don't you think a D2/D3 supervisor likes it when a D1 guy is available to work?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:06pm
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Well in basketball I belong to 3 different organizations in Illinois. I belong to one right now for Indiana (moved to the border a little over a year ago). All organizations are located in different areas, have different assignors that are members, have a different meeting night and have a different group of members in most cases. I joined each for different reasons as well. The one I have been a member of the longest was one of the first camps I attended this organization ran when I came to the Chicago area. We are truly independent contractors here. Associations do not assign games as it would violate laws in our state if they did so or treated us as employees. Associations here are training organizations that have networking elements to them.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 02:50pm
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So your commissioners are not the same people as the assignors? It's interesting, because in the DC area, association commissioners are the assignors for the scholastic level, with assistant commissioners or additional commissioners assigning the subvarsity and/or recreational levels.

However, the Commissioners are not the ones in charge of the association, so maybe that allows independent contractor laws to be satisfied. The President and Executive Board run day-to-day activities in their association, and Presidents, Commissioners, and Executive Board Officers are usually elected. However, if a vacancy occurs before an election, the President may appoint a person to fill the vacancy, which is what happened recently in Board 12 when their longtime Commissioner retired a few months after being re-elected.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Mon Sep 10, 2018 at 04:36pm.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 04:03pm
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Full College Schedule ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Officials get in multiple conferences because officials don't make their own schedules nor do conferences pay the same fees, so officials make themselves available to multiple supervisors. Are officials supposed to sit at home and only work games on nights that a specific conference has games? When conference play begins, half the teams are on the road and half are at home. That means that conference only needs at the most 24 officials. Should the same 24 officials work every game for a particular conference? How about D2 and D3 conferences? Who should cover those games? Don't you think a D2/D3 supervisor likes it when a D1 guy is available to work?
In other words, officials who restrict themselves to only one college conference, may not, or probably will not, get what most consider a "full schedule", just as I presumed when I posted.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Associations do not assign games as it would violate laws in our state if they did so or treated us as employees. Associations here are training organizations that have networking elements to them.
My local association/board, is also primarily a training organization. We hire an assignment commissioner. He is an employee ($35,000.00 annual salary, one year contract) of our local association/board. We are always paid by the schools, conferences, or state, we never get paid by the local association/board. Never, ever.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Sep 10, 2018 at 04:14pm.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 04:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
My local association/board, is also primarily a training organization. We hire an assignment commissioner. He is an employee ($35,000.00 annual salary, one year contract) of our local association/board. We are always paid by the schools, conferences, or state, we never get paid by the local association/board. Never, ever.
You would likely violate some laws here if that was the set up here as associations could assign, but they would likely get in trouble if they controlled people's assignments in one place. It is more than paying them, it is giving them the work alone that is the problem and is associated with controlling someone's schedule. That is why we have assignors that work for the conferences and they can hire anyone they want. This was actually made sure this was the case by taking out of LOA Constitutions to have anything to do with hiring for games.

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 04:54pm
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Independent Contractors ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You would likely violate some laws here if that was the set up here as associations could assign, but they would likely get in trouble if they controlled people's assignments in one place. It is more than paying them, it is giving them the work alone that is the problem and is associated with controlling someone's schedule. That is why we have assignors that work for the conferences and they can hire anyone they want. This was actually made sure this was the case by taking out of LOA Constitutions to have anything to do with hiring for games.
I beginning to wonder if officials here in Connecticut, in regard to interscholastic games, are not really true independent contractors, but are only considered such for reasons such as checking a box on various tax forms.

On W-9's (that most schools, including all the state technical schools, have us sign) most of us check off "Individual/sole proprietor or single-member LLC".

I'm pretty sure that we are independent contractors in regard to recreation games, travel games, men's league games, etc.

I'll have to check with my accounting firm, Dewey, Cheatem & Howe.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Sep 10, 2018 at 05:06pm.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 05:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I beginning to wonder if officials here in Connecticut, in regard to interscholastic games, are not really true independent contractors, but are only considered such for reasons such as checking a box on various tax forms.

On W-9's,, most of us check off "Individual/sole proprietor or single-member LLC".

I'm pretty sure that we are independent contractors in regard to recreation games, travel games, men's league games, etc.

I'll have to check with my accounting firm, Dewey, Cheatem & Howe.
You still can be an independent contractor, but I think this is on the organization that pays or assigns if they are not violating your rights like making you only work for them. Or not paying the proper taxes or filing the right paperwork for workman's comp. But many of these laws are state laws, not Federal laws.

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:38pm
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Payroll Taxes ,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... not paying the proper taxes or filing the right paperwork for workman's comp.

... Social Security, Medicare.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 11, 2018, 08:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
So your commissioners are not the same people as the assignors?
Right. Just like Jeff, I belong to 4 different associations and get HS assignments from about 10 assigners. Add in more for college.

In some areas, "assiciations" are set by the state and control almost everything in their area -- and sometimes officials can only belong to one association.

In others, associations are just a group of officials who like to get together (on a more formal basis that "meet at the bar after Firday's game") and you can belong to more than one and assigning is different.

In some, the state itself does all the assigning.

Some have variations based on sport.

There are 50 states and 52 ways of doing things. All that matters is you understand how it's done in your area (or areas if you work in multiple states).
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Are the Cardinal schools the ones in Woodbridge (Gar-Field, Hylton, Freedom, Woodbridge), or are they different schools?
Bull Run has PW County (Except Forest Park HS), some of Fauquier County and Culpeper County, and a bunch of private schools in those counties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
In other words, officials who restrict themselves to only one college conference, may not, or probably will not, get what most consider a "full schedule", just as I presumed when I posted.
Coincidentally enough, I work for a couple college assignors (I'm pumped I can say that now) and Assignor X sent out an e-mail telling people to give up dates from Assignor Y. Assignor Y has a D2 conference and will finish scheduling by August. Assignor X has D3, and well, doesn't like not having access to the "big dawgs" of small-college ball.

Either way, to answer your question, Assignor Y has been known to give certain people 50+ games (man has a lot games). So yeah, you can have a full schedule from one college assignor.
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