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-   -   Player and Referee Brawl (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103918-player-referee-brawl.html)

#olderthanilook Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1023056)
Spare me.

Defending oneself = ego. Laughable.
I have to assume you either didn't watch the video with a critical eye or was involved or know someone that was. Probably the former.

Rich Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:24pm
I speak as someone who was threatened after a baseball game by a parent years ago.

I could've run to the car and drove away, but I had gear on and it just seemed a bit ridiculous to run from a place where I just made $50 working a 3 hour baseball game. I wanted to change clothes and not deal with idiots.

So I told the guy I'd drop him with my mask and then I'd call the police to have him arrested afterwards. Would I have? No idea. He walked away. I think he thought I was a little bit crazy.

Could I have reacted "better"? At that moment, I simply didn't care.

Too much blaming the victim going on here. These officials were the VICTIMS.

JRutledge Thu Jul 12, 2018 01:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1023058)
I speak as someone who was threatened after a baseball game by a parent years ago.

I could've run to the car and drove away, but I had gear on and it just seemed a bit ridiculous to run from a place where I just made $50 working a 3 hour baseball game. I wanted to change clothes and not deal with idiots.

So I told the guy I'd drop him with my mask and then I'd call the police to have him arrested afterwards. Would I have? No idea. He walked away. I think he thought I was a little bit crazy.

Could I have reacted "better"? At that moment, I simply didn't care.

Too much blaming the victim going on here. These officials were the VICTIMS.
And baseball is similar to summer basketball or the kinds of events shown in this situation. Often you have no place to go and several times in baseball I was confronted or by a partner that was confronted about something after a game. Often you had to say things to make them think you were either a little crazy or that you threaten to call the police. People usually are not froggy enough to do anything, but I am not taking a chance. And walking away does not always solve the issue some of these people think it will. They are just lucky they did not have to deal with a situation.

Peace

IUgrad92 Thu Jul 12, 2018 01:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1023058)
I speak as someone who was threatened after a baseball game by a parent years ago.

I could've run to the car and drove away, but I had gear on and it just seemed a bit ridiculous to run from a place where I just made $50 working a 3 hour baseball game. I wanted to change clothes and not deal with idiots.

So I told the guy I'd drop him with my mask and then I'd call the police to have him arrested afterwards. Would I have? No idea. He walked away. I think he thought I was a little bit crazy.

Could I have reacted "better"? At that moment, I simply didn't care.

Too much blaming the victim going on here. These officials were the VICTIMS.
Unfortunately, that example does not relate to the OP. There HAS to be clarity and recognition that dealing with minors (under the age of 18) and adults is incredibly different.

Here's a few comments from legal professionals as it relates to an adult asking if he has the right to fight back against a 16 year old, if the kid initiated a physical confrontation. Take heed. You may not like it, but it's reality. In addition, you likely would not be officiating youth sports anymore, especially if your engagement in the violence causes harm to a minor.

"It is simply better to turn away and not engage him. You can only use self defense as a defense when charged with a crime. What you are contemplating is actually being arrested and charged with harassment or third degree assault and then raising self defense as an affirmative defense. My suggestion is to not expose yourself to a night or weekend in jail, pretrial serves, posting bond, hiring an attorney, etc. Any incident could very well be viewed by law enforcement as at least disorderly conduct of having a mutual fight. You simply don't want to go down this long and expensive path. No one is going to advise you as an adult to strike anyone, let alone a child."

"Nothing but bad things will come from you striking a 16 year old."

Rich Thu Jul 12, 2018 01:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 1023060)
Unfortunately, that example does not relate to the OP. There HAS to be clarity and recognition that dealing with minors (under the age of 18) and adults is incredibly different.



Here's a few comments from legal professionals as it relates to an adult asking if he has the right to fight back against a 16 year old, if the kid initiated a physical confrontation. Take heed. You may not like it, but it's reality. In addition, you likely would not be officiating youth sports anymore, especially if your engagement in the violence causes harm to a minor.



"It is simply better to turn away and not engage him. You can only use self defense as a defense when charged with a crime. What you are contemplating is actually being arrested and charged with harassment or third degree assault and then raising self defense as an affirmative defense. My suggestion is to not expose yourself to a night or weekend in jail, pretrial serves, posting bond, hiring an attorney, etc. Any incident could very well be viewed by law enforcement as at least disorderly conduct of having a mutual fight. You simply don't want to go down this long and expensive path. No one is going to advise you as an adult to strike anyone, let alone a child."



"Nothing but bad things will come from you striking a 16 year old."


I'd take my chances if I thought I was threatened. Better the attacker than me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

JRutledge Thu Jul 12, 2018 01:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 1023060)
Unfortunately, that example does not relate to the OP. There HAS to be clarity and recognition that dealing with minors (under the age of 18) and adults is incredibly different.

Here's a few comments from legal professionals as it relates to an adult asking if he has the right to fight back against a 16 year old, if the kid initiated a physical confrontation. Take heed. You may not like it, but it's reality. In addition, you likely would not be officiating youth sports anymore, especially if your engagement in the violence causes harm to a minor.

"It is simply better to turn away and not engage him. You can only use self defense as a defense when charged with a crime. What you are contemplating is actually being arrested and charged with harassment or third degree assault and then raising self defense as an affirmative defense. My suggestion is to not expose yourself to a night or weekend in jail, pretrial serves, posting bond, hiring an attorney, etc. Any incident could very well be viewed by law enforcement as at least disorderly conduct of having a mutual fight. You simply don't want to go down this long and expensive path. No one is going to advise you as an adult to strike anyone, let alone a child."

"Nothing but bad things will come from you striking a 16 year old."
I'm not a teacher so I do not really care. I am a parent and if the right thing happens I will knock out a 16-year-old if they are doing something to my child or if they are harming my wife. When you say this, keep in mind you are doing this through a very narrow lens. Because you must realize that 16-year-olds might commit crimes where they will be confronted. This just happens to be a situation at a sporting event, but not all situations are at sporting events or even in schools where kids have assaulted people or been involved in mob mentality.

You might be right, but I will take my chances when one comes after me and starts throwing punches. If I am an official I am still a person underneath the shirt.

Peace

SC Official Thu Jul 12, 2018 03:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 1023057)
I have to assume you either didn't watch the video with a critical eye or was involved or know someone that was. Probably the former.
I'm simply going to give the official the benefit of the doubt given what these types of events are known for. You've chosen not to.

Glad to know you're holier than thou. Hope you're not my partner if I'm ever in a situation like this.

JRutledge Thu Jul 12, 2018 03:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1023063)
Glad to know you're holier than thou. Hope you're not my partner if I'm ever in a situation like this.
Exactly and that is the point of this. I do not want to work with people that think we only should walk away when we have nowhere to go. Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and it does not often relate to actual violence, but if they believe they can just run up on you without response, they will.

Peace

#olderthanilook Thu Jul 12, 2018 04:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1023063)
I'm simply going to give the official the benefit of the doubt given what these types of events are known for.

You've chosen not to.
Fair enough.

And, I have definitely chosen to doubt the officials involved exercised common sense before and during the incident.

But, I think there is a lot to be learned for anyone and everyone that has viewed the clip and has read this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1023063)
Hope you're not my partner if I'm ever in a situation like this.
I will continue to live comfortably with that for a whole lot of reasons.

#olderthanilook Thu Jul 12, 2018 04:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1023062)
I am a parent and if the right thing happens I will knock out a 16-year-old if they are doing something to my child or if they are harming my wife.
Wait...what? This discussion was never about defending a wife or child. Let's stay on topic and point.

deecee Thu Jul 12, 2018 04:14pm
Man the what ifs and walking on water here. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, but actually did get assaulted by a bunch of "kids" who happen to be bigger than him. I love excuses for crappy behavior.

It's why I always tell women to not dress provocatively it only incites men, and that in turn is their fault for dressing provocatively.

IUgrad92 Thu Jul 12, 2018 04:56pm
"We haven't had anybody come forward to file a report on it," Kyle Teems, chief of police in Emerson, Georgia, told ESPN. "Obviously, there is something that happened there. No one has come forward yet."

Possibly an error in judgement by these officials to not file a report???

Or perhaps, maybe if they did take it to the police, their own behinds might be in trouble..... :eek::eek:

JRutledge Thu Jul 12, 2018 05:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 1023067)
Wait...what? This discussion was never about defending a wife or child. Let's stay on topic and point.
It was said basically there was no reason to get into with a 16-year-old in any case. I showed this to my wife and she had a visceral position and even suggested that she would likely do something if faced with this situation. So yes there are situations were not alone or without people that might also take a position on what is going on. I also do not know the relationship of all the officials in this case either. There might have been some family members involved. If there is no reason to react as a human, then own it for all situations when you take that position.

I was at a tournament yesterday with 70 courts where some people had family members working as officials or working with family members. I would doubt there is just a "walk away" attitude if certain things go down in certain places. This is the topic. When you suggest there is nothing that we should do because we have the magical stripped shirt on, you are not taking into all the accounts of what could happen. Just because it is not what you imagined in your mind, does not mean making these points are not apart of the conversation. Many of us have life experience in these situations you might not have.

Peace

Rich Thu Jul 12, 2018 06:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 1023069)
"We haven't had anybody come forward to file a report on it," Kyle Teems, chief of police in Emerson, Georgia, told ESPN. "Obviously, there is something that happened there. No one has come forward yet."



Possibly an error in judgement by these officials to not file a report???



Or perhaps, maybe if they did take it to the police, their own behinds might be in trouble..... :eek::eek:


Keep blaming the victims.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

SC Official Thu Jul 12, 2018 08:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 1023069)
"We haven't had anybody come forward to file a report on it," Kyle Teems, chief of police in Emerson, Georgia, told ESPN. "Obviously, there is something that happened there. No one has come forward yet."

Possibly an error in judgement by these officials to not file a report???

Or perhaps, maybe if they did take it to the police, their own behinds might be in trouble..... :eek::eek:
Just stop. You’re trying too hard.


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