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-   -   Camp Reviews/Info? Sticky? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103795-camp-reviews-info-sticky.html)

Player989random Mon May 07, 2018 05:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021399)

If I started a camp, I'd have classroom sessions and games for both those who want to attend a teaching camp, and those who want to try out for my conference. This way, both those who want to learn more about officiating and those who want to attend to try out would be able to gain a positive learning experience. Existing staff would be able to attend at a discount (or for free, if they have other discounts, or get a scholarship). The only difference between "students" and "candidates" would be that candidates would be evaluated and considered for jobs, whereas "students" would just be evaluated. Candidates (those who try out) and students (those who want to attend a teaching camp) would pay the same fee, and would indicate if they want to try out in their application. Candidates would also have a separate meeting about conference logistics, how they would be informed, etc.
Brah, that's almost exactly what the average camp is. There's just no difference between "students" and "candidates", cause if a student is good enough to work, he gets hired.

And listen to Raymond. His advice is what everyone here has been pushing for the past 2 pages.

ilyazhito Wed May 09, 2018 04:41pm
Back to the OP, people have made posts about camps in different areas of the country, including the West Coast, Southeast, and the DC Metro Area. I'm surprised that no one else has posted reviews of the Level One Basketball Officials camp that Que'z Crawford has run, but maybe it is just such a recent thing that very few people have heard about it. Maybe other people can post about other regions that aren't so well covered (The Midwest, Great Lakes, Pacific Northwest, etc.).

VaTerp Fri May 11, 2018 03:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021399)
I thought CBOA was a bona fide association, like MBOA or Board 12, that sent assignments through Arbiter (or another website) to its members.
You are confusing CBOA's. The one you are thinking of is the local board, Cardinal Basketball Officials Association, that assigns HS ball throughout Northern VA.

ilyazhito Fri May 11, 2018 04:45pm
I was thinking that the College Basketball Officials Association was a bona fide association. That was the CBOA I meant, not the Cardinal Basketball Officials Association (AKA IAABO Board 255) or the California Basketball Officials Association. I thought that the college CBOA assigned games, so I might get the following schedule in the future:
Date Group Type/Level Position Time Site
Monday MBOA WCAC Girls V U1 6:30 PM Bishop O'Connell
Tuesday CBOA Centennial U2 7:00 PM Hood College
Wednesday MBOA DCIAA JV R 4:00 PM Eastern HS
Wednesday MBOA DCIAA Boys Varsity U1 8:00 PM Eastern HS
Thursday Board 12 MCPS JV U1 5:15 PM Richard Montgomery HS
Thursday Board 12 MCPS V U2 7:00 PM Richard Montgomery HS
Friday CBOA MAC U1 7:00 PM Stevenson University
Saturday CBOA Centennial U1 1:00 PM McDaniel College

Returning to the OP, I would have expected more people to have made posts reviewing camps in other areas of the country, as I have made a review of Que'z Crawford's Level One Basketball Officials Camp.

SC Official Fri May 11, 2018 06:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021497)
Returning to the OP, I would have expected more people to have made posts reviewing camps in other areas of the country, as I have made a review of Que'z Crawford's Level One Basketball Officials Camp.
How many times are you going to say this?

Rich Fri May 11, 2018 07:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021401)
That's surprising, because supervisors are hiring officials for a specific task: officiating men's (or women's) college basketball. An official moving from D3 to D2 or D1, or laterally (from another area of the country) is familiar with how college basketball works, but someone who has never worked college basketball may only know what is printed in the "major rules differences" table in the NFHS or NCAA rulebooks. Thus, a new (er) college official may make mistakes by calling a high school rule in a college game (e.g. closely guarded on a dribble), which could be embarrassing if they happened in a regular-season game. Challenging an official to work out of his comfort zone (using college rules for a high school official) can also assess how good an official is at thinking on his feet, and how quick of a learner he is.

I could see your point, if supervisors just assessed a prospect very generally at camps (does he look like an official, can he move on the court, can he officiate), and then teach more specific stuff at scrimmages to whoever gets hired to the staff that year.

How would I find out which college supervisors have camps and are hiring, if, a few years down the road, I wanted to do the Landmark, or Centennial Conference, or MAC? I know that PhillyRef lists camps, but is stuff like who's hiring or where to go public knowledge for officials?
I hire for HS varsity games. I assign about 350 games a season -- about 200 of them boys games.

I couldn't give a squat about how well an official knows the closely guarded rule or how well he/she uses proper HS mechanics.

I care about 2 things -- can that person get calls right at the level I'm hiring him/her for and can that person deal with coaches.

I spent most of this season injured -- I had knee surgery last week. I went to a number of games and watched people work. In 5 minutes, I typically knew all I needed to know about an official. Just like they do at most college camps.

ilyazhito Fri May 11, 2018 08:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1021498)
How many times are you going to say this?
SC, can't we get this thread back on topic? :confused:

Rich Fri May 11, 2018 08:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021501)
SC, can't we get this thread back on topic? :confused:


The discussion goes where it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

SC Official Fri May 11, 2018 09:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021501)
SC, can't we get this thread back on topic? :confused:
Start a new thread if you don’t like where the discussion went. No one else seems to have an issue. And, we heard you the first time.

And just FYI, when you get to the college level, it is expected and implied that you know NCAA rules. Assigners don’t administer rules exams with a minimum passing score like you have in many states for HS (unless you are trying to work the NCAA tournament). And assigners certainly aren’t spending time at camp teaching rules that you supposed to learn on your own. You prove you know the rules by not f*cking one up, not by taking an exam or showing off your knowledge at camp.

JRutledge Fri May 11, 2018 09:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021497)

Returning to the OP, I would have expected more people to have made posts reviewing camps in other areas of the country, as I have made a review of Que'z Crawford's Level One Basketball Officials Camp.
Review camps for what? What I get out of camp might not have much to do with what you would get out of a camp. We are all not at the same level or trying to get the same things out of camps. I attended a camp a few weeks ago and one of the things the camp director ask of each camper was to tell him, "Why are you at this camp?" Every camper had a different answer. Even if you give a report about a camp, that really means nothing to everyone in the first place if you are looking for different things when you attend.

Peace

ilyazhito Fri May 11, 2018 09:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1021503)
Start a new thread if you don’t like where the discussion went. No one else seems to have an issue. And, we heard you the first time.

And just FYI, when you get to the college level, it is expected and implied that you know NCAA rules. Assigners don’t administer rules exams with a minimum passing score like you have in many states for HS (unless you are trying to work the NCAA tournament). And assigners certainly aren’t spending time at camp teaching rules that you supposed to learn on your own. You prove you know the rules by not f*cking one up, not by taking an exam or showing off your knowledge at camp.
If I understand things correctly, the rules test that I would take on the NCAA Basketball Arbiter Central Hub is just for tournament purposes, and has no effect on the regular season? I'm not trying to be stupid on purpose, I'm trying to understand how the college world works, what is the same as high school, and what isn't.

Right now, in addition to reading the high school rules before and during the season, I also make it a point of emphasis to read the NCAA rules (Men's and Women's), and the CCA manuals regularly, to grok the NCAA game as well as the high school game. Where I am, high school games use the shot clock, so I have to know at least some NCAA rules to ensure that the operators don't screw up.

To JRut, the reason why I posted my review is two-fold. First, there might be users (and lurkers) in the DMV who might also want to attend a good teaching camp, and who have recently started officiating. Second, this was the original intended purpose of this thread (cf. the title).

JRutledge Fri May 11, 2018 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021505)
If I understand things correctly, the rules test that I would take on the NCAA Basketball Arbiter Central Hub is just for tournament purposes, and has no effect on the regular season? I'm not trying to be stupid on purpose, I'm trying to understand how the college world works, what is the same as high school, and what isn't.
You were long hired before you took that test if you were hired by anyone at all. I can put a bunch of money on the line that no assignor gives or takes away games solely on the NCAA test that anyone can take if you pay the fee to join the NCAA Arbiter site.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021505)
To JRut, the reason why I posted my review is two-fold. First, there might be users (and lurkers) in the DMV who might also want to attend a good teaching camp, and who have recently started officiating. Second, this was the original intended purpose of this thread (cf. the title).
That is fine, but the point is even if someone does, it is only good as the people you trust honestly. Not everyone goes to a camp with the same expectations. I know I go to camps for my own personal reasons and my evaluation might not apply well to you if you are going for your own reasons. That is one reason I would not post a review of any camp here. I might tell someone what my experience was in private with another person that is asking. For example, if I had a bad experience at a camp, this would be the last place I would likely tell anyone about that experience. And if that is hard to understand, then I am not sure what to tell you at this point.

Peace

sdoebler Mon May 14, 2018 09:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1021506)
That is fine, but the point is even if someone does, it is only good as the people you trust honestly. Not everyone goes to a camp with the same expectations. I know I go to camps for my own personal reasons and my evaluation might not apply well to you if you are going for your own reasons. That is one reason I would not post a review of any camp here. I might tell someone what my experience was in private with another person that is asking. For example, if I had a bad experience at a camp, this would be the last place I would likely tell anyone about that experience. And if that is hard to understand, then I am not sure what to tell you at this point.

Peace
Yes but the point is that there are many camps all over and some people don't know anyone who has attended. Some perspective is better than going in blind. A review or thoughts coming from some random person on the internet is better than nothing at all, plus if you get multiple peoples opinion at least you can start to have an idea even if they differ. If a camp is purely a teaching camp with all classroom and zero games worked that is good to know. The full list of evaluators isn't always made available, if your local assignor is working at a camp and you would like to work from him but it is not well known where he is getting new recruits that is valuable information.

It is kinda like Yelp, I most likely don't know anyone that is reviewing a place I might go but I am still interested in their opinion. I have been to places that most people love that I end up hating, and been to places that people hate that I love. The vast opinion or single opinion of something doesn't make it fact but at least with a few other peoples reviews you can get a better understanding of what to expect rather than going in blind.

JRutledge Mon May 14, 2018 09:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler (Post 1021529)
Yes but the point is that there are many camps all over and some people don't know anyone who has attended. Some perspective is better than going in blind. A review or thoughts coming from some random person on the internet is better than nothing at all, plus if you get multiple peoples opinion at least you can start to have an idea even if they differ. If a camp is purely a teaching camp with all classroom and zero games worked that is good to know. The full list of evaluators isn't always made available, if your local assignor is working at a camp and you would like to work from him but it is not well known where he is getting new recruits that is valuable information.
Again, I think when you attend a camp a review from a random person is really not one I would pay much attention to for multiple reasons and the reasons I stated earlier. But that is me. If you are looking for that, you might not get what you want here. And if a camp is run by a supervisor of some kind or has supervisors for college in attendance, they are not usually "teaching camps." I am going to take another guess. Most people are not posting stickly local camps here. I would not post camps to IHSA certifications when most here would not be in the area or it would not serve them any purpose in their career from another state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler (Post 1021529)
It is kinda like Yelp, I most likely don't know anyone that is reviewing a place I might go but I am still interested in their opinion. I have been to places that most people love that I end up hating, and been to places that people hate that I love. The vast opinion or single opinion of something doesn't make it fact but at least with a few other peoples reviews you can get a better understanding of what to expect rather than going in blind.
Forgive me but I do not put much stock in Yelp. And would take even less stock in this kind of situation. My point is that you are not going to get enough reviews from people here anyway. There are not many people here that are going to camps all over the country. You might get one or two reviews. I would hope that someone is not making a decision to invest in themselves based off of one or two people they have never met. But again this is me. ;)

Peace

sdoebler Mon May 14, 2018 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1021530)
And if a camp is run by a supervisor of some kind or has supervisors for college in attendance, they are not usually "teaching camps."

I would hope that someone is not making a decision to invest in themselves based off of one or two people they have never met. But again this is me. ;)

Peace
Wouldn't that be nice to know if it was a teaching camp or not? If only you could ask or reference that:rolleyes:.

Would you rather make an investment in a camp based or one or two people you have never met (ignoring the fact that there are people here who are respected in this field) or based nothing but maybe the camp flyer?

You don't have to participate but there is still value to others even if you don't see it.


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