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-   -   AAU Tournaments and peer-pressure to move the games along... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103777-aau-tournaments-peer-pressure-move-games-along.html)

justacoach Sun Apr 22, 2018 02:09am
@ilyazhito

You reinforce my suspicion you are either a coach, an outright troll or just incredibly naive, especially when repeating the old canard "Someone's gonna get hurt" as if there were any validity to such statements.

bob jenkins Sun Apr 22, 2018 08:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 1020996)
@ilyazhito

You reinforce my suspicion you are either a coach, an outright troll or just incredibly naive, especially when repeating the old canard "Someone's gonna get hurt" as if there were any validity to such statements.
Those aren't mutually exclusive. ;)

Raymond Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 1020996)
@ilyazhito

You reinforce my suspicion you are either a coach, an outright troll or just incredibly naive, especially when repeating the old canard "Someone's gonna get hurt" as if there were any validity to such statements.
He said he had Asperger's.

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ilyazhito Sun Apr 22, 2018 05:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 1020996)
@ilyazhito

You reinforce my suspicion you are either a coach, an outright troll or just incredibly naive, especially when repeating the old canard "Someone's gonna get hurt" as if there were any validity to such statements.
@justacoach, the official looking onto the other court when she is responsible for her game is setting herself up for a lawsuit, especially if someone gets fouled, and she does not see or call the foul. Any official who did that in my game during live play would go on my block list.

BrentD2222 Sun Apr 22, 2018 05:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021002)
@justacoach, the official looking onto the other court when she is responsible for her game is setting herself up for a lawsuit, especially if someone gets fouled, and she does not see or call the foul. Any official who did that in my game during live play would go on my block list.
Exactly how many lawsuits have actually happened to any officials for any reason? I'm guessing its very rare.

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deecee Sun Apr 22, 2018 06:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentD2222 (Post 1021003)
Exactly how many lawsuits have actually happened to any officials for any reason? I'm guessing its very rare.

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In 15+ years I have heard of 1. And it was because the official pushed a kid.

justacoach Sun Apr 22, 2018 06:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021002)
@justacoach, the official looking onto the other court when she is responsible for her game is setting herself up for a lawsuit, especially if someone gets fouled, and she does not see or call the foul. Any official who did that in my game during live play would go on my block list.
So now add counselor-at-law to your list of suspected avocations....and a quite picky one at that. You're suggesting a lawsuit be filed if someone gets fouled?

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BillyMac Sun Apr 22, 2018 06:36pm
Liability ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentD2222 (Post 1021003)
Exactly how many lawsuits have actually happened to any officials for any reason? I'm guessing its very rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1021004)
In 15+ years I have heard of 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 1021005)
You're suggesting a lawsuit be filed if someone gets fouled?
There must be some degree of liability? Somebody wrote a whole book about it.

https://www.amazon.com/Sports-Offici.../dp/1582080844

Remember, anybody can sue anybody at any time for almost any reason. Even if the official is in the right, he still has to hire an attorney, and those billable hours add up quickly.

“He who represents himself has a fool for a client.” (Abraham Lincoln)

BillyMac Sun Apr 22, 2018 06:38pm
Retro ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 1021005)
Sent from my Commodore C-64 ...
I just spotted this. Very cool. My nomination for Post O' The Month.

JRutledge Sun Apr 22, 2018 06:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1021004)
In 15+ years I have heard of 1. And it was because the official pushed a kid.
There are more and more of these, but it is not for not calling a foul. It is usually for some negligence of some kind in the accusation for much bigger things. Like a facility issue or something involving safety of something worn or against the rules. But this is not just about the official, it is about others involved and the official might be just one of the plaintiffs out of a few others. Still very rare overall.

Peace

ilyazhito Sun Apr 22, 2018 07:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 1021005)
So now add counselor-at-law to your list of suspected avocations....and a quite picky one at that. You're suggesting a lawsuit be filed if someone gets fouled?

Sent from my Commodore C-64 using Crapatalk.
Failing to monitor the situation for possible foul play, with said failure to pay attention to one's surroundings leading to bodily harm for another (a player) under the responsibility of the official can qualify as negligence, which is considered a tort. There are four elements to this tort, duty, breach, damages, and causation.

The duty of an official to exercise reasonable care includes paying attention to what is happening on the court while the official is on the court and has jurisdiction. This official failed to perform that duty.

Breach: The defendant breaches that duty through an act or culpable omission. Not paying attention to what is going on on the court most certainly qualifies as a culpable omission.

Damages: As a result of said act or omission, the plaintiff (a player) suffers an injury. If a player is injured because of an illegal play that happened while the official was not paying attention, that fulfills the damages criterion.

Causation: the injury to the plaintiff is a reasonably foreseeable consequence of the defendant's act or omission. If players see that an official is not paying attention, they may use that to illegally contact another player. If the illegal contact causes harm, then it is reasonable to imply causation from the official's inattention to the player's injury.

Thus, the criteria for the tort of negligence (and a lawsuit for negligence) against the official can be fulfilled, if a player is hurt because an official watches action on another court, without paying attention to his/ her own. In that scenario, a lawsuit would be reasonable, due to the official's inaction.

Back to the regularly scheduled thread on AAU Basketball (or lack thereof).

Raymond Sun Apr 22, 2018 09:23pm
I did 4 AAU games this weekend, and it was girls. The games were tied to the Nike EYBL circuit. I had probably 14U-15U games. But the games were well-played, even the blow-outs. The coaches were not a problem at all. Only had one set of obnoxious fans out the 8 teams.

I'm very selective about what I work in the off-season. I used to have a 3-game limit, but I've pared that back to 2 game/day limit. After that, I don't want to be out there.

Rich Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021009)
Failing to monitor the situation for possible foul play, with said failure to pay attention to one's surroundings leading to bodily harm for another (a player) under the responsibility of the official can qualify as negligence, which is considered a tort. There are four elements to this tort, duty, breach, damages, and causation.



The duty of an official to exercise reasonable care includes paying attention to what is happening on the court while the official is on the court and has jurisdiction. This official failed to perform that duty.



Breach: The defendant breaches that duty through an act or culpable omission. Not paying attention to what is going on on the court most certainly qualifies as a culpable omission.



Damages: As a result of said act or omission, the plaintiff (a player) suffers an injury. If a player is injured because of an illegal play that happened while the official was not paying attention, that fulfills the damages criterion.



Causation: the injury to the plaintiff is a reasonably foreseeable consequence of the defendant's act or omission. If players see that an official is not paying attention, they may use that to illegally contact another player. If the illegal contact causes harm, then it is reasonable to imply causation from the official's inattention to the player's injury.



Thus, the criteria for the tort of negligence (and a lawsuit for negligence) against the official can be fulfilled, if a player is hurt because an official watches action on another court, without paying attention to his/ her own. In that scenario, a lawsuit would be reasonable, due to the official's inaction.



Back to the regularly scheduled thread on AAU Basketball (or lack thereof).


You'd better be a damned good official to overcome whatever it is you've shown on this board. Just sayin.


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ilyazhito Mon Apr 23, 2018 07:57am
@justacoach was asking if I suggested that someone file a lawsuit if a player was fouled, I explained why it could happen, and why the plaintiff would have standing in court. In no way did I suggest that said lawsuit be filed.

Is EYBL the league that plays the games that officials work at camps in the DC Metro Area? I heard that they were one of the few AAU leagues that can be trusted.

Raymond Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1021013)
....

Is EYBL the league that plays the games that officials work at camps in the DC Metro Area? I heard that they were one of the few AAU leagues that can be trusted.
EYBL is a national AAU league sponsored by Nike. The boys have 4 stops where teams play a pre-arranged schedule of games (usually about 5 games in weekend). Think there are 40 teams involved. One of the stops is always the Boo Williams complex in Hampton, VA, which has always been officiated by the MEAC staff camp. Others are places like Minneapolis, Houston, Las Vegas, San Francisco. The finals are always played in North Augusta, GA (Peach Jam) and are officiated by some sort of SEC consortium related camp. In Hampton, other national AAU teams at lower age levels also participate in a standard AAU style tournament.

I'm not sure how the girls EYBL is run.


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