End of game questions

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
"Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intetentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne player".

Interesting. Any airborne player. As my answer above indicates, I would've applied that note only to an airborne shooter; and as Juulie pointed out, A1 is NOT an airborne shooter in situation 2.

Hmmm. So jump, horn, foul, release. . . we're gonna give 3? Or since there's no try, we're gonna give 1-and-1?

[Jurassic Referee]

My bad,Chuck! The cite should say "airborne shooter".

[ChuckElias]

Whew!! I know stand unabashedly by my original post in this thread!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

As my answer above indicates, I would've applied that note only to an airborne shooter; and as Juulie pointed out, A1 is NOT an airborne shooter in situation 2.

Hmmm. So jump, horn, foul, release. . . we're gonna give 3? Or since there's no try, we're gonna give 1-and-1?

How can you give 1/1,by rule? What if they're not in the bonus?

[ChuckElias]

JR, just completely disregard the post you quoted there. I was thinking that you were saying that we had to penalize the foul against the airborne player, even if that player was not an airborne shooter. Just disregard it.

And lay off Manny!

Nice penguins, tho.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
(1)I was thinking that you were saying that we had to penalize the foul against the airborne player, even if that player was not an airborne shooter.

(2)And lay off Manny!

(3)Nice penguins, tho.

1)When does he stop being an airborne shooter in this sitch? When the foul occurs? When the period ends? When one foot returns to the court? And how does that reconcile with the language of R4-19-1NOTE? When does this Note cease to apply?

(2)Manny who?

3)Thanks. One of my favorite gifs. Just like to watch the l'il guys dance. Just fun to watch.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1)When does he stop being an airborne shooter in this sitch? When the foul occurs? When the period ends? When one foot returns to the court? And how does that reconcile with the language of R4-19-1NOTE? When does this Note cease to apply?

Not that I'm in the habit of coming to the aid of those un-American Red Sox fans but the way I understand the sequence - jump, horn, foul, release - A1 has not become an airborne shooter since the period ended prior to releasing the ball on the try. He's just a plain-old player in the air.

Or am I missing something else?

(2)Manny who?

Manny are called but few are chosen.

3)Thanks. One of my favorite gifs. Just like to watch the l'il guys dance. Just fun to watch.

You been hitting Padgett's meds again, haven't you?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

[/B]

You been hitting Padgett's meds again, haven't you?

[/B][/QUOTE]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/b]

Not that I'm in the habit of coming to the aid of those un-American Red Sox fans but the way I understand the sequence - jump, horn, foul, release - A1 has not become an airborne shooter since the period ended prior to releasing the ball on the try. He's just a plain-old player in the air.
[/B][/QUOTE]So R4-19-1NOTE don't count? How about R4-19-1 above it -"A personal foul also includes also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead"? Doesn't specify how the ball became dead,does it?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Not that I'm in the habit of coming to the aid of those un-American Red Sox fans but the way I understand the sequence - jump, horn, foul, release - A1 has not become an airborne shooter since the period ended prior to releasing the ball on the try. He's just a plain-old player in the air.
[/B]

So R4-19-1NOTE don't count? How about R4-19-1 above it -"A personal foul also includes also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead"? Doesn't specify how the ball became dead,does it? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yer just yankin' our chains, right?

An airborne shooter is someone who's released the ball on a try. If the horn sounds before the ball is released, then the ball becomes dead immediately, the release isn't a try and A1 is not an airborne shooter.

[Adam]

A1 would then be a false-airborne shooter, right?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
[/B]

(1)Yer just yankin' our chains, right?

(2)An airborne shooter is someone who's released the ball on a try. If the horn sounds before the ball is released, then the ball becomes dead immediately, the release isn't a try and A1 is not an airborne shooter.

[/B][/QUOTE](1)Who,me? Worked for a while though,didn't it.

(2)Trying to make the point that you need to know all the rules relating to these types of situations. If you didn't know the language of the exception3 of the R6-7 rule that Chuck used,you might have tried to apply the R4-19-1 language to it instead. This isn't one of those theoretical,fun-to-play-with,never-happen situations,either.This one,and the different ones like it,aren't that rare.

[Hawks Coach]

Forget the airborne shooter provision. If the player has started the motion that normally ends in a shot and they are fouled, they are considered to be fouled in the act of shooting. It seems to me that if you rule that the act of shooting occurred before the foul, and foul before the horn, you still have a foul in the act even if the horn goes first.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
From Damian's initial post that started this thread:

(b)"...then A crashes into B as an airborne shooter"

The complete wording of R4-19-1NOTE that Chuck is referring to in his answer is "Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter".

I think that, by now, you have agreed with me, but I'm not 100% sure. I just want to point out that while Damian used the words "airborne shooter" I think he uses them incorrectly. R4-19-1Note doesn't apply to someone who is in the air just because he couldn't stop himself when the horn blew. I think that's what Chuck was saying, but I'm not sure. Maybe after these long-difficult-church-meeting-weekends I should just not check the board till tomorrow!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Forget the airborne shooter provision. If the player has started the motion that normally ends in a shot and they are fouled, they are considered to be fouled in the act of shooting. It seems to me that if you rule that the act of shooting occurred before the foul, and foul before the horn, you still have a foul in the act even if the horn goes first.

A try begins with the habitual motion blah blah blah. An airborne shooter is a player in the air who was released the ball on a try. We agree in this play there was a foul on the try but there was not an airborne shooter since the try was never released.