Can an NCAA Basketball Official Work Both Sexes?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Not in response to anyone, but I know multiple women's college or former women's college officials that I'd much rather work high level boys HS games with than some of the men's/former men's officials I see. The idea I hear sometimes that "you can't go between genders because the games are too different" is ludicrous.

Well if you do work doubleheaders and you are forced to work both genders, then that is a different situation than officials like our area that are not forced and often not asked to do both genders. We have boys assignors that will not use primarily girls officials for varsity boys games. And we have enough officials in basketball, this is not even an issue. And if you work any other level, you will not get officials out to work both either. Games of both genders are rarely held on the same night.

I think working both is hard and as I said before it is not about it being hard, but understanding the cultures of both. I have said before that the culture of girls basketball is much different than working boys basketball. And I am sure that contrast is much different if you are not seeing the same game on the same night. It may work better in areas like yours, but in mine, this is often a disaster. Because many boys officials are used to a faster, higher and stronger game. The coaches do not want you calling any little contact that takes place that seems very acceptable in girls games. And girls officials are usually older, slower and not as experienced. Just heard of a story of a kid in college being hired by a big-time assignor in college and he barely stopped playing HS ball himself. But someone thinks that is a good idea to work college, which will help him work a HS schedule for girls he would never see that soon on the boys side. Not saying he could not do it, but there are more of those stories in women's college than I ever hear on the Men's or boys side of basketball (around here).

Originally Posted by SC Official

We work doubleheaders in South Carolina, and the best officials (including the college officials) that I work with are equally adept at both genders. The only ones that are competent at girls but overmatched in boys are the old farts that can't run and should have retired 10 years ago.

I might work one basketball game a year on the girls side. I had two last year only because I worked in another state too for the first time last year. It was like working in a foreign country when I did a girls game. Girls coaches complained about the silliest stuff IMO. One team/coach thought there was so much trash talking that it was bothersome to them, where that interaction would have been not even a notice in many boys games I have worked in the past. And every time a girl would dribble through three people and lose the ball, you would have thought we committed highway robbery by not calling a foul when no defender did anything wrong. And all of that IMO is because they see officials that overreact to things that if you called to that extend

Originally Posted by SC Official

Quite frankly, I appreciate when I work with crews that will enforce FOM and the automatics and not ignore them because "it didn't affect anything." And the women's officials are better at that.

Well when I work with Men's college officials at the HS level, this is hardly ever a problem. They are used to and have been calling the game that way for years. It is the mostly HS officials that sometimes struggle with this, but this has been done for so long at the HS level, it is easy to call the game now IMO.

Peace

[SC Official]

I'm a former men's college official and hear far more complaints from boys coaches than girls coaches in my area. Now, whether that is just because the girls coaches don't care as much, or are just better behaved than the boys coaches, or some other reason, is up for debate (or maybe I suck). And female coaches almost never give me any trouble; when I have an issue with a girls coach it's almost always a male. I don't change the way I call the game; in the end I'm looking for advantage/disadvantage no matter what gender (plus the automatics). If I worked women's college maybe my philosophy would be different.

Just goes to show how different things are by area. As far as the SCHSL is concerned, basketball is basketball. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that's how it is in GA, NC, and SC. If girls and boys started playing on different nights here, the officials that got mostly girls games would raise hell.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I'm a former men's college official and hear far more complaints from boys coaches than girls coaches in my area. Now, whether that is just because the girls coaches don't care as much, or are just better behaved than the boys coaches, or some other reason, is up for debate (or maybe I suck). And female coaches almost never give me any trouble; when I have an issue with a girls coach it's almost always a male. I don't change the way I call the game; in the end I'm looking for advantage/disadvantage no matter what gender (plus the automatics). If I worked women's college maybe my philosophy would be different.

For the record, I am not saying that boys coaches do not complain. They complain big time in many areas. But the things they complain about are totally different. They will often tell their players to stop doing things that are the "automatics" that we are asked to call. If I call hand-checking they clearly support those calls and teach their players on the spot to stop doing those things. That is not the situation I am talking about. But if you call a foul on a blocked shot (when clearly not clean) or just make several calls they do not like, they can get silly too. I am just saying that girls coaches tend to get silly over when a girl falls and I have been asked so many times, "She did not fall on her own" where the same play would have the coach yelling at his player, "Get up and keep playing." It is as if the girls are fragile and cannot handle the contact of the game. I have even read where there is this attitude that girls are not playing basketball because the game is too rough. You never hear that position from boys or parents of boys.

Originally Posted by SC Official

Just goes to show how different things are by area. As far as the SCHSL is concerned, basketball is basketball. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that's how it is in GA, NC, and SC. If girls and boys started playing on different nights here, the officials that got mostly girls games would raise hell.

They tried to do that in several conferences here after a Title IX lawsuit. What was found was that even if the girls played the game first or second, people would either leave after the girls game or they would not come into the gym until the boys game was about to start. So they started playing at completely different times unless it was a rivalry where everyone would come out that night or afternoon. Also, tournaments are held in different places so the officials are not in the same places for the high profile events.

Peace

[bucky]

To answer OP: No or at least never heard of anyone doing it.

Tidbit contributions:

Going between boys and girls HS ball is easy enough b/c rule sets are the
same. Doing the same at the NCAA level is not easy enough.

Generally speaking, the pay is the same b/w the genders. I have had
many officials indicate that officiating girls/women's bball is far easier
(slower pace, less complaining, simpler plays, easier coaches, etc.) than
boys/men's so why would they do boys/men's if pay is the same? Makes
sense however, there are also far more whistles blown (sloppier play, etc.)
in the women's game than in the men's. It is simply a lower level of bball so
mentally it can be more taxing (read boring or less enjoyable). I rarely do a
HS girls game b/c I nearly fall asleep after the tip.

[ilyazhito]

I thought that the two sexes would be more comparable in terms of ability, whether at the college (JUCO through D1), varsity high school, or subvarsity levels. Because of that, I thought that working both would be a good idea for when I was to try out for the G-League and/or FIBA, so that I could have experience working both high-level men's and women's basketball.

Now, I realize that this is not so, and I plan to only pursue men's college basketball, because that is more challenging than comparable women's basketball. I will still accept assignments for both sexes at the high school level.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I thought that the two sexes would be more comparable in terms of ability, whether at the college (JUCO through D1), varsity high school, or subvarsity levels. Because of that, I thought that working both would be a good idea for when I was to try out for the G-League and/or FIBA, so that I could have experience working both high-level men's and women's basketball.

Now, I realize that this is not so, and I plan to only pursue men's college basketball, because that is more challenging than comparable women's basketball. I will still accept assignments for both sexes at the high school level.

If you can't discern the different ability levels of boys vs girls ball, it is truly presumptuous to project yourself as a candidate for G-league much less FIBA.

Everyone is entitled to their dreams and aspirations but your previous revelations on this forum clearly pigeonhole you as one of those inveterate "Yeah, but" guys who populate the extreme fringes of the officiating world.

Definitely don't quit your day job....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Everyone is entitled to their dreams and aspirations ...

Originally Posted by justacoach

... as one of those inveterate "Yeah, but" guys ...

This is something important that I've learned since joining the Forum. Trainers, clinicians, trained observers, experienced outstanding veteran officials, etc., all have great wisdom to offer, even if it differs slightly with one's own opinion. Listen, file it away somewhere in your brain, and continue to learn. Don't completely ignore any advice from anyone who has been to many, many, many rodeos, and has been around the block many, many, many times.

Originally Posted by justacoach

Definitely don't quit your day job ...

Five more weeks until my retirement as an environmental chemist. I've already started practicing yelling at the neighborhood kids to keep off my front lawn, and checking the local restaurants for early bird specials. I hope I can get used to eating dinner at four o'clock in the afternoon. Now, where are my keys?

[LRZ]

With retirement, Billy, you will have more time to post.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LRZ

With retirement, Billy, you will have more time to post.

I've actually given that some thought. Seriously. I don't want to wear out my welcome and catch any undue attention from the moderators.

I've already made up some retirement rules for myself.

Don't watch any daytime television, go to the gym six days a week (even during basketball season), go to weekday morning mass at least once a week, only check the Forum no more than twice a day on weekdays, early morning, and late afternoon, as I presently do, and get to know my town librarian.



I plan to make myself available for midafternoon middle school, and high school freshman games. I'm sure that I'll observe a lot of weird plays and work with some novice officials. That should generate some good thread topics.

Cue the Benny Hill Show theme song.

https://youtu.be/Gpc5_3B5xdk

Now I've got to go out and buy some hard candy for the grandkids.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Cue the Benny Hill Show theme song.

Love Benny....as well as Mr. Bookman.

[ilyazhito]

Are you in a state that allows you to work separate genders, or do you do men's college ball? In either case, I would understand your comments about almost falling asleep doing girls basketball. To me, right now, basketball is basketball, whether played by boys, girls, or aliens, but now I know that men's is the way to go.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... played by boys, girls, or aliens ...

I've read rumors about a sequel to Space Jam, with LeBron James in the role previously played by Michael Jordon.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Mr. Bookman.

I was wondering how many would get the Seinfeld reference based on just a photo. I can never get one past you guys. Forum members are pretty sharp.

This (below) is for bucky's enjoyment.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Michael Jordon.

Never heard of him.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This (below) is for bucky's enjoyment.

Having watched every episode at least 30 times, tough to get anything Seinfeld related by me. My kids hate it when a recite lines word for word before the characters say them.