The "FLOP"

[Pantherdreams]

Seeing the term FlOP thrown around a bunch on the boards here lately. I'm not going to get into a language thing as faking being fouled is problematic as well.

However, I'm not sure we all mean the same thing.

I would not consider the following faking be fouled:

1- Player in anticipation of contact begins to move away from the contact but contact never happens, however players movement away results in in them falling to the ground.

2- Player gets hit and chooses to absorb minimal contact by moving backwards or going to the ground.

3- Player putting hands in the air as they run through defense they feel is holding them.

4- PLayer takes off balance shot or shoots with legs kicked/splayed hoping to get contacted and the result of taking the off balance shot results in them ending up on the floor.

Actions the player takes to put themselves off balance, out of the play, or to protect themselves from percieved or real contact I am not considering as a faking being fouled.

For it to fall into the flop category no contact would have to result in a reaction that was clearly meant to indicate there was contact, OR the players reaction (verbal, physical, etc) during/after would have to indicate a desire for a foul call/intended to incite the crowd.

[Raymond]

I consider players who throw themselves to the ground after a jump shot or who snap their heads back as if they got hit to be flopping.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Seeing the term FlOP thrown around a bunch on the boards here lately. I'm not going to get into a language thing as faking being fouled is problematic as well.

However, I'm not sure we all mean the same thing.

I would not consider the following faking be fouled:

1- Player in anticipation of contact begins to move away from the contact but contact never happens, however players movement away results in in them falling to the ground.

2- Player gets hit and chooses to absorb minimal contact by moving backwards or going to the ground.

I don't understand how "a player's movement away (in ANTICIPATION of contact) results in them falling to the ground" unless they are flopping or just extremely lacking in coordination.

Also, "choosing to go the ground to absorb MINIMAL contact" also sounds like flopping to me.

But overall, I think you are overthinking this. I've seen, played, officiated, and coached enough basketball in the last 30 years to be very confident in my judgement of whether someone is flopping or not for the purpose of adjudicating fouls. This includes defenders who try to get PC fouls by feigning non existent contact or embellishing legal contact. Offensive players who do the same such as the head throw back on the dribble.

So just call the foul based on what you see. Or are we talking about issuing technicals based on the letter of the law?

Maybe I'm just confused on what's actually at issue here.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

But overall, I think you are overthinking this. I've seen, played, officiated, and coached enough basketball in the last 30 years to be very confident in my judgement of whether someone is flopping or not for the purpose of adjudicating fouls. This includes defenders who try to get PC fouls by feigning non existent contact or embellishing legal contact. Offensive players who do the same such as the head throw back on the dribble.

So just call the foul based on what you see. Or are we talking about issuing technicals based on the letter of the law?

Maybe I'm just confused on what's actually at issue here.

Agree -- the "I know it when I see it" approach works just fine for flopping too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

[Pantherdreams]

Thanks. I am ok with i know it when i see it. I also know that I've got partners who will warn kids/coaches about flopping in situations I don't see it as flopping so just looking for some clarification.

I guess I don't see a kid is is falling away before contact or ending up on the floor because of an off balance shot or cut as doing those things to necessarily fake a foul. Judging intent is difficult, I like the idea of knowing it when I see it.

Thanks!

[Rich]

Don't you understand? It's ALWAYS flopping when an official doesn't want to put a whistle on a play and call a block.

[LRZ]

I have trouble with a flop on marginal contact, where, without the flop, I'd pass on calling it either way.

One of my assigners once said to me that when a body or bodies hit the floor on a flop, call a block and tell the defender, "That flop cost you a foul. You have four flops left." When in Rome....