IHSA Boys State Finals 2018 Plays (Video)

Play 1: Not a foul. Even if it was, wrong official making the call.

Play 2: Not a foul. Has to be a lot more obvious than this in a loose ball scramble. What the hell is Trail doing not staying engaged?

Play 3: Foul

Play 4: Charge, defender was legal and was moving to maintain IMO

Play 5: It's a tripping foul but as Slot I would not even be watching Trail's one matchup in the back court.

Play 6: Foul on white #12

[Multiple Sports]

I think there is a bigger problem here. In a lot of instances ( especially hoops ), I think a lot of crews at state championships are in over their head. In some instances you have local assigners submitting crews. You end up at times giving games to crews that have never seen that type of athleticism. Can you image a guy from the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania seeing Roman Catholic for the 1st time. That official during the season is at best is seeing a guy that wont
get minutes at the D3 level and then in the state chip is getting a team with three D1 players who are going to Power 5's.

Im not saying guys dont deserve the assignnent, just feel at times the crews dont do the game justice....

Thoughts ????

[RefRich]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Can you image a guy from the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania seeing Roman Catholic for the 1st time. That official during the season is at best is seeing a guy that wont
get minutes at the D3 level and then in the state chip is getting a team with three D1 players who are going to Power 5's

Aw shucks, we here in PA just don't know how these teams run so fast or jump so high. We don't know what it means to adjust to the level of play. Please educate us.

These are high school officials who have worked their asses off to get to this level. This is not their profession but I'm sure many if not all do study the game quite a bit. Why do they not deserve a state final? Hopefully they will watch film and learn from any mistakes and improve their game. You make it sound as if an official who has officiated Roman Catholic would not make mistakes. I'm pretty sure the videos that are posted regularly on this sit prove that to be incorrect.

I'm not sure if you could sound more condescending but I'll stick around to see.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

I think there is a bigger problem here. In a lot of instances ( especially hoops ), I think a lot of crews at state championships are in over their head. In some instances you have local assigners submitting crews. You end up at times giving games to crews that have never seen that type of athleticism. Can you image a guy from the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania seeing Roman Catholic for the 1st time. That official during the season is at best is seeing a guy that wont
get minutes at the D3 level and then in the state chip is getting a team with three D1 players who are going to Power 5's.

Im not saying guys dont deserve the assignnent, just feel at times the crews dont do the game justice....

Thoughts ????

I think the bigger issue is lack of familiarity as a crew. I worked a state final last year with 2 guys that I could not get on the same page with and it had a noticeable negative impact on the game. IMO, and that of 3 state observers I talked to immediately after, they both really struggled for huge stretches of the game. I don't know if it was necessarily a case of the level of play being above their heads or moreso that they just struggled that night.

VHSL actually made a switch this year, where instead of a mixed crew from different parts of the state, crews from the same association were assigned to all state games (quarterfinals, semis, and finals). From the 7 or 8 state games I watched, I thought it worked out well with crews being more consistent overall.

Anyways, I don't see any evidence of any of those issues being a problem on the plays cited here. I think they basically got them all right.

Play #1- This is the one I like the least. I think there is a bump on the ball handler that could have been called and then the rebounding contact seems marginal but also a case for displacement. The biggest issue to me is not that the T made the call but that he did not move to stay with the play at all. He should have stayed connected during the drive and, at the very least, stepped down to make the rebounding call.

#2- Fairly easy call IMO. People keep talking about a "loose ball" situation but the players are not in an equally advantageous positions. The contact from black clearly knocks white off balance and again, is a fairly easy call. And to answer the question in the video, I have no problem with the C making being on this play. I'd like to see the T more engaged but like the C hanging back here with a very competitive matchup coming his way.

#3- Also fairly easy one coming across the forearm to get to the ball.

#4- Close to establishing LPG but not a close call IMO. He was never legal and is sliding into path of airborne shooter.

#5- Again, no problem with C hanging back for a second and getting a good look at the contact on his side. Good call.

#6- The ball appears to be what hit gold in the face but I think #12 gets the inside of his arm before that. Good call.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

... crews from the same association were assigned to all state games (quarterfinals, semis, and finals).

We've always done it that way in Connecticut, from the first round until the state championship, boys and girls, all enrollment divisions.

Our main problem is the scarcity of three person games during the regular season, especially in some local boards (we have six local boards in Connecticut, two use quite a bit of regular season three person crews, four only do a few, including mine). Our interscholastic state high school sports governing body mandates three person crews from the quarterfinals on (some exceptions for some early round tough matchups).

I observed one of our local guys in a quarterfinal game. It was his first year in the tournament. He did a great job. After the game I asked him how many three person games he had worked previously. He answered that that night's game was his first three person game ever, not even a single three person scrimmage.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

...
Play 4: Charge, defender was legal and was moving to maintain IMO

...

He was still sliding over after A1 was airborne.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

...
Play 2: Not a foul. Has to be a lot more obvious than this in a loose ball scramble. What the hell is Trail doing not staying engaged?
...

I would love for you to explain how that contact is not a foul.

[Raymond]

#5) The Center has no business looking back there, let alone blowing his whistle when the Trail is 3 feet from the play.

#6) Player got hit in the head by both opponents.

Originally Posted by Raymond

I would love for you to explain how that contact is not a foul.

Sure thing. During a scramble for a 'loose' ball like this play my bar for marginal contact goes way up. My goal at all time is to call obvious fouls, and my criteria for what constitutes an obvious foul also goes way up in situations like this.

I don't see an obvious foul, just offensive player being clumsy when going for the ball. Marginal contact.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Sure thing. During a scramble for a 'loose' ball like this play my bar for marginal contact goes way up. My goal at all time is to call obvious fouls, and my criteria for what constitutes an obvious foul also goes way up in situations like this.

I don't see an obvious foul, just offensive player being clumsy when going for the ball. Marginal contact.

Then it's time for you to recalibrate. The defender knocks offensive player down with his leg.

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[deecee]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Then it's time for you to recalibrate. The defender knocks offensive player down with his leg.

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Looked incidental to me from the scramble to get the ball. I had a no-call to be honest.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

Looked incidental to me from the scramble to get the ball. I had a no-call to be honest.

It was incidental until he actually got the ball. He then started a dribble and was knocked off the ball. The contact is the only reason he couldn't continue to control the ball. To me, that is a foul every day.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It was incidental until he actually got the ball. He then started a dribble and was knocked off the ball. The contact is the only reason he couldn't continue to control the ball. To me, that is a foul every day.

Except he never regained possession.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It was incidental until he actually got the ball. He then started a dribble and was knocked off the ball. The contact is the only reason he couldn't continue to control the ball. To me, that is a foul every day.

When he went to "go" he clearly lost the ball before there was any contact, he tried to pick up the ball and it rolled out of his hands when the defender was still a few feet from him.