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-   -   Team catches & shoots w/ .3 left to win in WV Tournament (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103632-team-catches-shoots-w-3-left-win-wv-tournament.html)

Jay R Thu Mar 08, 2018 08:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1018503)
From an upcoming article I'm writing for a magazine. It's been twenty-eight years and I'm sure that some Forum young'uns don't know the background of the rule.

The Trent Tucker Rule disallows any regular shot to be taken on the court if the ball is put into play with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period. The rule was born out of a game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls on January 15, 1990 at Madison Square Garden. The game was tied at 106 with one-tenth of a second left in regulation and the Knicks in possession. During a timeout called by the Knicks, both teams prepared for what was seen as the only possible way the Knicks could win in regulation: an alley-oop tapin by Patrick Ewing from an out of bounds pass. When play resumed, the Knicks player throwing the ball in, Mark Jackson, saw the alley-oop play get broken up. He proceeded to throw the ball inbounds to Trent Tucker, who was the only player open. Tucker then turned around and hit a three-point jump shot before the buzzer, giving the Knicks the win, 109–106. Replays showed that the clock was not started until Tucker's shot was already in midair. Afterward, everyone said a player could not catch, plant, spin, and release a shot so quickly. The NBA determined that you cannot catch and shoot in three-tenths of a second or under. All you can do is throw it at the rim and have someone tip it in.

It is actually 0.2 seconds or less. In the NBA as in FIBA, you can catch and shoot with 0.3 seconds or more.

justacoach Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay R (Post 1018529)
It is actually 0.2 seconds or less. In the NBA as in FIBA, you can catch and shoot with 0.3 seconds or more.

Can confirm for NBA ruleset.

Camron Rust Fri Mar 09, 2018 01:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1018524)
If you take a closed book test, you might not know the answer. ;)

Peace

Do tell me what the diameter of a straight line is, even if you use your book.

Nevadaref Fri Mar 09, 2018 04:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay R (Post 1018529)
It is actually 0.2 seconds or less. In the NBA as in FIBA, you can catch and shoot with 0.3 seconds or more.

Correct for the current NBA rule, but what was it back in 1990 when it was originally created? BillyMac's story could be correct for that time period and a change could have occurred during the intervening years.

Jay R Fri Mar 09, 2018 06:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1018538)
Correct for the current NBA rule, but what was it back in 1990 when it was originally created? BillyMac's story could be correct for that time period and a change could have occurred during the intervening years.

Could be. It's certainly been the current rule for at least 15 years. I don't know if it's changed before that.

BillyMac Fri Mar 09, 2018 07:06am

Poetic License ...
 
Sorry about the confusion. It's my fault.

You guys are pretty sharp. The original NBA Trent Tucker Rule, in 1990, was "less than three tenths of a second". I took some liberties (that reminds me, I've got to get my poetic license renewed, I hope my new photo comes out better than the photo on my old license) because the article is about NFHS rules.

Did you guys know that shoes with flashing lights were banned by the NBA in 1993 because of LA Gear shoes worn by 1993 by Karl Malone and Hakeem Olajuwon?

Paintguru Fri Mar 09, 2018 07:42am

This was the state quarterfinal, right? Am I the only one surprised there was not an official's supervisor at the game? I feel like there should be to avoid these situations. I'm sure it isn't common practice, but perhaps it should be.

And to be fair, there are guys refereeing in the NFL that kick rules occasionally. This is part of the reason the VP of officiating can radio in and help. However, I totally agree that this is a basic rule that an officiating crew in the quarters should know.

rotationslim Fri Mar 09, 2018 08:02am

Thought this was interesting
 
I started telling this story my boy who rides the pine on a good HS Varsity team in the midwest. I got to the ".3 on the clock" part and he jumped in and said-- "they can only tap it then". I said "those particular refs didnt know that rule, how did you?" He looked at me like I am clueless (which I am) and said "we practice a play for that" So I guess good coaches do know the rule.

JRutledge Fri Mar 09, 2018 08:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1018537)
Do tell me what the diameter of a straight line is, even if you use your book.

You realize that it was sarcasm right? You realize that I have been saying for years how silly rules tests are for years? You realize that I took the NF test (first time in probably 15 years or so) this year for the first time and they asked about 10-15 questions about measurements from the ball. Of course, there is no diameter of a line, but who cares what it has to be if you come to a court. Are you going to not play the game if you have a line that does not fit the requirements? Heck, what if you do not have a shadow line? Are you suspending the game? So why do people put so much stock in these test when clearly in this situation the officials did not know a rule that actually might be applicable?

Peace

frezer11 Fri Mar 09, 2018 08:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1018515)
This could’ve been avoided with a good pregame.

While its probably not in my pregame, I don't think your comment is entirely blue ink worthy...

justsumguy3 Fri Mar 09, 2018 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintguru (Post 1018541)
This was the state quarterfinal, right? Am I the only one surprised there was not an official's supervisor at the game? I feel like there should be to avoid these situations. I'm sure it isn't common practice, but perhaps it should be.

And to be fair, there are guys refereeing in the NFL that kick rules occasionally. This is part of the reason the VP of officiating can radio in and help. However, I totally agree that this is a basic rule that an officiating crew in the quarters should know.

There is an 'officials supervisor' there along with a 4th official at the table. This isn't the first time there has been a controversy of this magnitude at the state tournament regarding rule application.

About 10 years ago in a title game, A1 made a '3' to tie the game with around 4 seconds left. The clock expired before B could collect and inbound the ball. The supervisor allowed the officials to go to the monitor to 'make sure the shot was released in time', and then to check whether it was a 2 or 3.

While the rule allows for this in a title game, the controversy was that the shot was clearly released in time and they shouldn't have been able to check where his foot was. The shot was corrected to be a '2' and B won the title.

SC Official Fri Mar 09, 2018 08:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 1018546)
While its probably not in my pregame, I don't think your comment is entirely blue ink worthy...

My comment was throwing shade at those officials that have an "if you pregame it then it won't happen" mindset, e.g. on blarges.

deecee Fri Mar 09, 2018 08:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 1018546)
While its probably not in my pregame, I don't think your comment is entirely blue ink worthy...

Oh yes it is. I may spit up from laughter the day I hear in a pregame "let's not forget that less than .3 seconds...." Like come on. The pregame doesn't solve many scenarios, just some of the most commons ones that have to do with how a crew works.

This is just rules knowledge. A bit late for that in a pre-game in this case if you ask me.

Raymond Fri Mar 09, 2018 09:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 1018546)
While its probably not in my pregame, I don't think your comment is entirely blue ink worthy...

In the pregame they would have gotten it wrong also.

frezer11 Fri Mar 09, 2018 09:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1018551)
In the pregame they would have gotten it wrong also.

Actually that's a pretty good point. Pregame is primarily about communication, not rules knowledge.


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