Sportsmanship problems in AZ

[stripes]

Originally Posted by packersowner

Did anyone watch the videos embedded in the story?

It appears AZ only uses 2 person crews?

Why are there cameras underneath the basket or within the free throw area extended?

The boys game that has all of the highlights looks like a track meet. There were times where the trail didn't even appear to cross 1/2 court.

Anyone here from AZ that can comment?

AZ does use 2 whistles...They are experimenting with 3 in the state tournament this year with the hopes of moving to 3 next season.

AIA (governing body) has asked officials to make sure that cameras are not in the FT area extended...obviously not uniformly enforced.

I have worked several track meet games. Many times teams will score 80+ and it is just fast break basketball reminiscent of LMU under Paul Westhead. Highest score I had was 107 in regulation (with a running clock in the 4th quarter). We logged a few miles that day.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by stripes

AZ does use 2 whistles...They are experimenting with 3 in the state tournament this year with the hopes of moving to 3 next season.

AIA (governing body) has asked officials to make sure that cameras are not in the FT area extended...obviously not uniformly enforced.

I have worked several track meet games. Many times teams will score 80+ and it is just fast break basketball reminiscent of LMU under Paul Westhead. Highest score I had was 107 in regulation (with a running clock in the 4th quarter). We logged a few miles that day.

As a caution from Oregon, which switched to 3-person recently, there will be problems if everything switches at once....even larger chunks. You're not going to have enough people with 3-person experience to transition smoothly. You'll have a lot of crews with little to no 3-person experience and they're going to struggle for a while...calls with be missed and 3-person will appear to many coaches/ADs to be worse than 2-person. We tried to move ALL varsity officials into 3-person all at once. There were (and continue to be) a lot that just are not getting it....we brought it in too fast and too broadly. You're going to have a lot of veteran officials that don't adapt to it very well, if at all.


If I were to recommend a transition plan, I'd suggest you figure out how many people have solid 3-person experience (essentially your college officials) and limit the number of games that will be 3-person on any given night to no more than about 60-70% of that for the first year so you can have one of those (or two on big games) on every 3-person game...as the R.

Select U1's that have some 3-person experience, but may not have a lot (newer college officials perhaps). This allows you to introduce 3 person to 1 completely green official per game and having others that can lead them.

Limit the number of officials new to 3-person to about the same number as those with solid experience. Once you go 1-2 years with that, the people that were U1's will be ready to be R's with 3-person and many of those officials new to 3-person will have enough to be the U1 on most 3-person crews and even be the R on some. You can then add another large group of officials.


I think that by phasing it in, you'll be able to better keep the quality high and keep your schools/coaches from revolting.

[Rich]

Those videos show officials walking in the backcourt with the ball heading to the front court.

Frankly, some of these videos are not good examples of officials working hard or giving a crap.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by Rich

Those videos show officials walking in the backcourt with the ball heading to the front court.

Frankly, some of these videos are not good examples of officials working hard or giving a crap.

My thoughts exactly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As a caution from Oregon, which switched to 3-person recently, there will be problems if everything switches at once....even larger chunks. You're not going to have enough people with 3-person experience to transition smoothly. You'll have a lot of crews with little to no 3-person experience and they're going to struggle for a while...calls with be missed and 3-person will appear to many coaches/ADs to be worse than 2-person. We tried to move ALL varsity officials into 3-person all at once. There were (and continue to be) a lot that just are not getting it....we brought it in too fast and too broadly. You're going to have a lot of veteran officials that don't adapt to it very well, if at all.


If I were to recommend a transition plan, I'd suggest you figure out how many people have solid 3-person experience (essentially your college officials) and limit the number of games that will be 3-person on any given night to no more than about 60-70% of that for the first year so you can have one of those (or two on big games) on every 3-person game...as the R.

Select U1's that have some 3-person experience, but may not have a lot (newer college officials perhaps). This allows you to introduce 3 person to 1 completely green official per game and having others that can lead them.

Limit the number of officials new to 3-person to about the same number as those with solid experience. Once you go 1-2 years with that, the people that were U1's will be ready to be R's with 3-person and many of those officials new to 3-person will have enough to be the U1 on most 3-person crews and even be the R on some. You can then add another large group of officials.


I think that by phasing it in, you'll be able to better keep the quality high and keep your schools/coaches from revolting.

I also think that schools/conferences need to realize that there will be growing pains.

Personally, I would prefer making the change all at once at the varsity level and have considerable training prior to and during the transition -- and don't let the schools complain too loudly for a few years.

Why? If I wasn't in that group of officials getting to work the bigger games that I might have worked for a while because I wasn't in the "chosen" group, I might simply walk away.

I had a few veteran but marginal officials decide it wasn't worth it to learn 3-person and asked if we could just stay two and pay more -- those people I was happy, in the end, to see retire or drop back to local JV/FR games.

[sdoebler]

Aren't most camps 3 person mechanics? I have never been to camp targeted at varsity level or above that wasn't 3-person. The only camps that I have seen run 2-person mechanics are for brand new officials.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I also think that schools/conferences need to realize that there will be growing pains.

Personally, I would prefer making the change all at once at the varsity level and have considerable training prior to and during the transition -- and don't let the schools complain too loudly for a few years.

Why? If I wasn't in that group of officials getting to work the bigger games that I might have worked for a while because I wasn't in the "chosen" group, I might simply walk away.

In our case, the transition was largely done by conferences. There were still plenty of big games in the 2-person conferences.

One of our conferences that went 3 person the first year went back to 2 the 2nd year because they saw too many sub par officials added to their games. They felt they had better quality with 2 than 3. The observed improvement from the system wasn't enough to overcome the addition of an official that may have never been on their games in the past. That was because we threw too many people into 3-person at once. The new official wasn't ready or accustomed to that level of ball and had no 3-person background at all. With limited experience form the other 2, that made for a situation where 3-person didn't look that good on a lot of nights.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In our case, the transition was largely done by conferences. There were still plenty of big games in the 2-person conferences.

One of our conferences that went 3 person the first year went back to 2 the 2nd year because they saw too many sub par officials added to their games. They felt they had better quality with 2 than 3. The observed improvement from the system wasn't enough to overcome the addition of an official that may have never been on their games in the past. That was because we threw too many people into 3-person at once. The new official wasn't ready or accustomed to that level of ball and had no 3-person background at all. With limited experience form the other 2, that made for a situation where 3-person didn't look that good on a lot of nights.

Here officials choose which conferences to work for -- and the conferences choose which ones they will have.

I know, for a fact, I've worked my last 2-person varsity contest. Mainly because I won't work for the few conferences that still use 2. If everyone went back to two, I'd retire.

[blindzebra]

The big concerns are cost for the school administration, and more fouls from the coaches. AZ has been fighting those for decades, and a big hurdle was that the powers at AIA were old school. The new head of officiating was an official up until last year, so there may finally be enough pressure to finally join the 21st century.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

The big concerns ... and more fouls from the coaches.

Same problem here in Connecticut. Coaches. Money issues are a concern, but are secondary.