Coaches Behavior

Originally Posted by Smitty

You had fans thrown out for that??? Wow. You wouldn't last very long here if you can't ignore that...

Here’s the guy I’m talking about!

But no, I don’t throw fans out every time they say a negative comment. These were fans who went out of their way to directly confront me or a partner. They can boo all they want or bitch about the foul count, but once they get personal like that all bets are off. They don’t pay their $5 to just come and harass me all night.

[jTheUmp]

I've had a good experience this year... very little whining from coaches or players. With means one of four possibilities: a) I've learned to tune it out better than in years past, b) the coaches and players are actually getting better, or c) I'm getting better and giving them less to complain about, d) the point-of-emphasis on sporting behavior from the state office is actually having an effect.

Probably some combination of the above, honestly.

I've given out one T this season, to a player who told me to "you need to make a damn call", so I did as she asked.

No coach Ts in any of my games... heck, we've only given out one bench warning so far.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It's been more fan behavior for me. I've thrown out several fans this year, 2 in HS contests. In all cases they were making direct, personal comments to me and the ref crew. And somehow refs I talk to still think I shouldn't have done it cuz they didn't use profanity, they only made comments like "you're terrible", "you're cheating our girls", and "you should be ashamed of yourself". Sorry fan, I don't get paid enough to listen to that. In both cases I threw out the worst offender and no one said a word after that. Yet somehow I'm the bad guy.

Kudos to you for doing the right thing.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It's been more fan behavior for me. I've thrown out several fans this year, 2 in HS contests. In all cases they were making direct, personal comments to me and the ref crew. And somehow refs I talk to still think I shouldn't have done it cuz they didn't use profanity, they only made comments like "you're terrible", "you're cheating our girls", and "you should be ashamed of yourself". Sorry fan, I don't get paid enough to listen to that. In both cases I threw out the worst offender and no one said a word after that. Yet somehow I'm the bad guy.

For saying those things? You either need to grow a thicker skin or trim your elephant ears.

There's always an idiot in the crowd saying "that's terrible", among other things. Why give them the satisfaction by letting them know you not only hear them, but it also bothers you and throw them out. They are making themselves look like idiots and the rest of the crowd recognizes it too.

Usually I will just smile/laugh so that the idiot can see me. It really makes them mad because there is nothing they can do about it.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Here’s the guy I’m talking about!

But no, I don’t throw fans out every time they say a negative comment. These were fans who went out of their way to directly confront me or a partner. They can boo all they want or bitch about the foul count, but once they get personal like that all bets are off. They don’t pay their $5 to just come and harass me all night.

How are the statements that you listed personal? How do you know they were talking to you? Either way, I wouldn't call that personal. If we all felt the way you do, every time a fan says something we would call it personal.

Don't be that guy.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It's been more fan behavior for me. I've thrown out several fans this year, 2 in HS contests. In all cases they were making direct, personal comments to me and the ref crew. And somehow refs I talk to still think I shouldn't have done it cuz they didn't use profanity, they only made comments like "you're terrible", "you're cheating our girls", and "you should be ashamed of yourself". Sorry fan, I don't get paid enough to listen to that. In both cases I threw out the worst offender and no one said a word after that. Yet somehow I'm the bad guy.

Originally Posted by CJP

Kudos to you for doing the right thing.

Is this common around the country? Maybe it's just here then, but I would get laughed at and then reprimanded if I tried to remove fans for this kind of nonsense. Only personal threats and/or profanity, or someone who is over the top beligerent is worthy of fan removal here. And we have game administration take care of it. We are not to directly interact with fans at all.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Is this common around the country? Maybe it's just here then, but I would get laughed at and then reprimanded if I tried to remove fans for this kind of nonsense. Only personal threats and/or profanity, or someone who is over the top beligerent is worthy of fan removal here. And we have game administration take care of it. We are not to directly interact with fans at all.

I was not there but I am going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt that there was some "over the top belligerent" behavior going on.

If a fellow official felt the need to remove a fan then I am not going to ridicule him for it.

[SC Official]

A lot of times when I hear officials tell fellow officials they need “thicker skin,” it’s code for “I don’t handle business when I need to and I let too much bad behavior go.”

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

For saying those things? You either need to grow a thicker skin or trim your elephant ears.

Just awful that an official would make these recommendations.

I assign for 24 schools at the varsity level. I would back any official who had an idiot removed for any reason. Maybe if more people got thrown out, the behavior at these events would improve.

"Thicker skin" and "elephant ears" are phrases normally thrown out by coaches, not officials.

Originally Posted by SC Official

A lot of times when I hear officials tell fellow officials they need “thicker skin,” it’s code for “I don’t handle business when I need to and I let too much bad behavior go.”

Bingo.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rich

Just awful that an official would make these recommendations.

I assign for 24 schools at the varsity level. I would back any official who had an idiot removed for any reason. Maybe if more people got thrown out, the behavior at these events would improve.

"Thicker skin" and "elephant ears" are phrases normally thrown out by coaches, not officials.

Normally I agree with you on most things, but this I just can't. Fans are not our problem most of the time. The phrases he had a problem with are white noise. They shouldn't bother us to the point of letting it affect our attention. We should be able to ignore these things.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Normally I agree with you on most things, but this I just can't. Fans are not our problem most of the time. The phrases he had a problem with are white noise. They shouldn't bother us to the point of letting it affect our attention. We should be able to ignore these things.

I am not saying that the official should be over the top and ranting and raving -- but there's nothing that a quiet word with a cooperative game manager can't fix. On our (the schools') end, I'm trying best I can to get schools to be proactive with behavior and keep crap off the officials, who just want a positive experience and want to work.

I officiated at a school last week and the student section was just out of control. There 3 staff members, paid to be crowd control, did nothing but stand in the corner, glazed eyed. I let it go as I recognized that there's a systemic problem there and I wasn't going to fix it, but it made me unhappy, nonetheless.

For me, fan noise usually correlates to coach behavior. (My example above -- not. The coach was a gentleman all night.) I can ignore most of it, but when fans get personal or start in on members of the other team (student sections making fun of opposing players, for example), then it shouldn't just be ignored.

[pfan1981]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You had fans thrown out for that??? Wow. You wouldn't last very long here if you can't ignore that...

Maybe game admin should be doing their job. Have fans forgotten they are there to cheer for the teams?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rich

I am not saying that the official should be over the top and ranting and raving -- but there's nothing that a quiet word with a cooperative game manager can't fix.

For me, fan noise usually correlates to coach behavior. I can ignore most of it, but when fans get personal or start in on members of the other team (student sections making fun of opposing players, for example), then it shouldn't just be ignored.

I agree completely with shutting down the student section making fun of an opposing player. I will jump on that. But the generic things AremRed mentioned are standard phrases that I don't deem as "personal" - they are just generic opinions that fans say when they don't understand why calls are made or not made. Typical fan behavior - maybe he just didn't describe it to the level it rose to where it became toss-worthy.

[LRZ]

Standards of what is deemed acceptable behavior will differ. I have no problem with what AremRed did. Not often, but on occasion, I have had to remind fans of the codes of conduct schools must adhere to in the leagues I work.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by LRZ

Standards of what is deemed acceptable behavior will differ. I have no problem with what AremRed did. Not often, but on occasion, I have had to remind fans of the codes of conduct schools must adhere to in the leagues I work.

Context also matters. If that's a packed house, those comments might not make a difference, or even be heard. If its one idiot in a gym of 10 fans, then I'm not putting up with that very long.