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-   -   Travel, block, or nada? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103311-travel-block-nada.html)

bainsey Wed Jan 03, 2018 01:19pm

Travel, block, or nada?
 
Loose ball on the floor. A-1 secures the ball in his backcourt while standing up, and tries to move upcourt, but trips over B-2, lying prone in front of him. A-1 manages to get his non-pivot foot over B-2, and just as A-1 gets his pivot foot over B-2 and setting it down, he releases a successful pass to A-3.

*Travel on A-1?
*Blocking foul on B-2?
*Nothing, play it on?

Rich Wed Jan 03, 2018 01:24pm

Show me a video.

Let's assume that B-2 is simply holding a spot on the floor. It's traveling if the pivot foot returns to the floor before the pass and is not if it doesn't.

What's confusing about that?

deecee Wed Jan 03, 2018 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 1014038)
Loose ball on the floor. A-1 secures the ball in his backcourt while standing up, and tries to move upcourt, but trips over B-2, lying prone in front of him. A-1 manages to get his non-pivot foot over B-2, and just as A-1 gets his pivot foot over B-2 and setting it down, he releases a successful pass to A-3.

*Travel on A-1?
*Blocking foul on B-2?
*Nothing, play it on?

Or it happens so fast that you can have a travel or no travel. But if B2 is just on the floor and not doing anything to affect A1's movement then option 2 is not an option at all in HS.

AremRed Wed Jan 03, 2018 02:14pm

Sounds like a blocking foul on B2.

hamnegger Wed Jan 03, 2018 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1014040)
Or it happens so fast that you can have a travel or no travel. But if B2 is just on the floor and not doing anything to affect A1's movement then option 2 is not an option at all in HS.

Wait OP says he tripped over B2. B2 can not be on the ground and have LGP. There is contact that is affecting the play. This to me sounds like a block/trip.

deecee Wed Jan 03, 2018 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamnegger (Post 1014048)
Wait OP says he tripped over B2. B2 can not be on the ground and have LGP. There is contact that is affecting the play. This to me sounds like a block/trip.

LGP has to do with block charge calls. HS and NCAA treat players on the floor differently. Essentially every player is entitled to their space on court.

A trip is a deliberate act that in this scenario would be an intentional foul.

bob jenkins Wed Jan 03, 2018 02:25pm

Block in NCAAW (assuming A1 was affected by B2).

B2 is legal in FED, so the pivot foot actions determine travel or not.

(Edited to correct my original posting having the rulings reversed)

Raymond Wed Jan 03, 2018 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1014051)
Block in HS (assuming A1 was affected by B2).

B2 is legal in NCAAW, so the pivot foot actions determine travel or not.

It's a block in NCAA-Men's. I have nothing in NFHS because I thought every player is entitled to their spot on the floor.

Raymond Wed Jan 03, 2018 02:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 1014038)
Loose ball on the floor. A-1 secures the ball in his backcourt while standing up, and tries to move upcourt, but trips over B-2, lying prone in front of him. A-1 manages to get his non-pivot foot over B-2, and just as A-1 gets his pivot foot over B-2 and setting it down, he releases a successful pass to A-3.

*Travel on A-1?
*Blocking foul on B-2?
*Nothing, play it on?

What would be the basis for a travel?

so cal lurker Wed Jan 03, 2018 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1014055)
What would be the basis for a travel?

Reread the OP. He lifted his pivot and put it down before releasing the pass. So unless there is a foul, it's a travel.

Rich Wed Jan 03, 2018 04:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 1014057)
Reread the OP. He lifted his pivot and put it down before releasing the pass. So unless there is a foul, it's a travel.


That's unclear in the OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

BillyMac Wed Jan 03, 2018 06:36pm

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1014054)
I thought every player is entitled to their spot on the floor.

2004-05 Casebook: 10.6.1 SITUATION E: B1 attempts to steal the ball from stationary A1 who is holding the ball. B1 misses the ball and falls to the floor. In dribbling away, A1 contacts B1's leg, loses control of the ball and falls to the floor. RULING: No infraction or foul has occurred and play continues. Unless B1 made an effort to trip or block A1, he/she is entitled to a position on the court even if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down.

Camron Rust Wed Jan 03, 2018 07:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1014060)
That's unclear in the OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I thought it was clear but can see how you might read it otherwise...

Quote:

A-1 manages to get his non-pivot foot over B-2, and just as A-1 gets his pivot foot over B-2 and setting it down, he releases a successful pass to A-3.
I read that to say the pivot foot was down, just barely, then the pass was released.

bainsey Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27pm

I appreciate the thoughts. This happened last night, and I went with option C, played it on.

My thought process: It could not be a travel (despite what Coach B wanted at that moment). The interpretation I understand is someone lying on the floor is not entitled to that spot, so any contact that causes what would be a travel would have to be a foul. However, since A-1 got a clean pass upcourt to a teammate, I felt it best to pass on the contact.

Camron Rust Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 1014076)
I appreciate the thoughts. This happened last night, and I went with option C, played it on.

My thought process: It could not be a travel (despite what Coach B wanted at that moment). The interpretation I understand is someone lying on the floor is not entitled to that spot, so any contact that causes what would be a travel would have to be a foul. However, since A-1 got a clean pass upcourt to a teammate, I felt it best to pass on the contact.

As you now know...that interpretation is incorrect for a HS game but correct for a college game.


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