Travel, block, or nada?
 

Loose ball on the floor. A-1 secures the ball in his backcourt while standing up, and tries to move upcourt, but trips over B-2, lying prone in front of him. A-1 manages to get his non-pivot foot over B-2, and just as A-1 gets his pivot foot over B-2 and setting it down, he releases a successful pass to A-3.

*Travel on A-1?
*Blocking foul on B-2?
*Nothing, play it on?

Show me a video.

Let's assume that B-2 is simply holding a spot on the floor. It's traveling if the pivot foot returns to the floor before the pass and is not if it doesn't.

What's confusing about that?

Or it happens so fast that you can have a travel or no travel. But if B2 is just on the floor and not doing anything to affect A1's movement then option 2 is not an option at all in HS.

Sounds like a blocking foul on B2.

Wait OP says he tripped over B2. B2 can not be on the ground and have LGP. There is contact that is affecting the play. This to me sounds like a block/trip.

LGP has to do with block charge calls. HS and NCAA treat players on the floor differently. Essentially every player is entitled to their space on court.

A trip is a deliberate act that in this scenario would be an intentional foul.

Block in NCAAW (assuming A1 was affected by B2).

B2 is legal in FED, so the pivot foot actions determine travel or not.

(Edited to correct my original posting having the rulings reversed)

It's a block in NCAA-Men's. I have nothing in NFHS because I thought every player is entitled to their spot on the floor.

What would be the basis for a travel?

Reread the OP. He lifted his pivot and put it down before releasing the pass. So unless there is a foul, it's a travel.

That's unclear in the OP.


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Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

I thought it was clear but can see how you might read it otherwise...

I read that to say the pivot foot was down, just barely, then the pass was released.

I appreciate the thoughts. This happened last night, and I went with option C, played it on.

My thought process: It could not be a travel (despite what Coach B wanted at that moment). The interpretation I understand is someone lying on the floor is not entitled to that spot, so any contact that causes what would be a travel would have to be a foul. However, since A-1 got a clean pass upcourt to a teammate, I felt it best to pass on the contact.

As you now know...that interpretation is incorrect for a HS game but correct for a college game.

I don't want to raise again the question of old interpretations, but is that 2004-2005 case the only authority for this?

Oldie But Goodie ...
 

2004-05 Casebook: 10.6.1 SITUATION E: B1 attempts to steal the ball from stationary A1 who is holding the ball. B1 misses the ball and falls to the floor. In dribbling away, A1 contacts B1's leg, loses control of the ball and falls to the floor. RULING: No infraction or foul has occurred and play continues. Unless B1 made an effort to trip or block A1, he/she is entitled to a position on the court even if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down.

Has there been a rule change since 2004-05 that would invalidate this interpretation? How about any citations in existing rules, or caseplays, that would invalidate this interpretation?

There's a difference between being tripped, and tripping.

If it's not illegal, it's legal.

Billy, please read what I wrote in its entirety and don't go looking for an argument. I was not--I repeat, NOT--debating the precedential value of the case. I was simply asking if there was anything new that I might have overlooked.

Entitled To A Spot On The Playing Court ...
 

It's not new, but ...

4-23-1: Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent.

I'm going strictly off memory here, but I seem to recall something that reversed that old interpretation, stating lying on the floor is not part of the game and therefore not an entitled spot. I'm not betting the house on it, though.

House ...
 

Could you be confusing the NFHS interpretation with the (contrary) NCAA interpretation?

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.G...=0&w=300&h=300

We've been down this road before
 

What if the pivot foot (accidentally) landed on the player who was laying on the floor prior to release of the pass (basically if the offensive player stepped on the defender)? Would anyone interpret this to be a travel as well?

NFHS - Rule 4 Section 44 Article 3 a,b - indicate "returned to the floor". Perhaps "some body" needs to be added to the text.:rolleyes: