End of Wisconsin/WKU

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is the play (I think).



Peace

1. Why is the center calling this? He has an offensive player on the block in his primary surrounded by two defenders, and also has another offensive player in his primary that could take a quick pass and shot. The center should be ready to pick up the secondary defender around the RA should the dribbler had gotten around his primary defender.

2. The lead also had a whistle on this play, and should have been given first crack at this play. To be fair, in the heat of the moment, you sometimes don't hear that second whistle, though. Heck, it's not like the lead didn't have a good look at the play, either.

3. I honestly can't tell if it's a block or a charge. At first I thought the defender moved into the dribbler as the dribbler was trying to drive around him, thus a "block" call. But then I thought the defender beat the dribbler to the spot of contact, after having gained LGP, thus a "charge" call. I'm leaning "charge", but not 100%.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

1. Why is the center calling this? He has an offensive player on the block in his primary surrounded by two defenders, and also has another offensive player in his primary that could take a quick pass and shot. The center should be ready to pick up the secondary defender around the RA should the dribbler had gotten around his primary defender.

2. The lead also had a whistle on this play, and should have been given first crack at this play. To be fair, in the heat of the moment, you sometimes don't hear that second whistle, though. Heck, it's not like the lead didn't have a good look at the play, either.

3. I honestly can't tell if it's a block or a charge. At first I thought the defender moved into the dribbler as the dribbler was trying to drive around him, thus a "block" call. But then I thought the defender beat the dribbler to the spot of contact, after having gained LGP, thus a "charge" call. I'm leaning "charge", but not 100%.

That play opened up to the C in exactly the area the C normally looks through (across the FT line area, even if it extends beyond his line on the floor a little).

The elbow push off that was called by the C likely would not have been visible to the lead. If the C lays off that, there is a non-insignificant chance the L makes the wrong call (correct from what he could have seen, however). When you have something like that, it is best to take the call rather than risk a partner, who couldn't see what you saw, has something else.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That play opened up to the C in exactly the area the C normally looks through (across the FT line area, even if it extends beyond his line on the floor a little).

The elbow push off that was called by the C likely would not have been visible to the lead. If the C lays off that, there is a non-insignificant chance the L makes the wrong call (correct from what he could have seen, however). When you have something like that, it is best to take the call rather than risk a partner, who couldn't see what you saw, has something else.

I can see what you're saying. Just seems odd the C was looking there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I can see what you're saying. Just seems odd the C was looking there.

They teach the lead to make that call. If the play opens up to the C, they want them to get calls they see. The other players were doing nothing but standing. Because one of those players might have come over and he would have been able to know where the ball came from.

Peace

[JRutledge]

This is also not a secondary defender play. This is a primary defender moving to the lane to stop the ball handler that is coming to him. I think it is a very good call and made by the right official. And it appears that the lead had the same thing if you just read how he was coming off the lane.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is also not a secondary defender play. This is a primary defender moving to the lane to stop the ball handler that is coming to him. I think it is a very good call and made by the right official. And it appears that the lead had the same thing if you just read how he was coming off the lane.

Peace

The guy on or near the RA could be a secondary defender is what I'm saying. Wouldn't he be the C's responsibility?

Imagining myself as the C in that play I figure to be looking at the matchup near the block first, as it's entirely possible for a shot to go up and those two jostling for rebounding position. At the same time keeping an eye on what the dribbler is doing. I wouldn't have been surprised at all if the dribbler decided to pass to his teammate who would be in front of me for a quick shot attempt.

I don't have strong feelings against the C taking this call, but this isn't a case where absolutely nothing his happening in his area and therefore it makes more sense for him to be looking across his primary to the other side.

And being clearly in the lead's area I'm giving him first crack at this call, instead of immediately making a call without any thought given to my partner (which is why I don't think he even knew the lead blew his whistle). And if the lead was straightlined then why did he blow his whistle in the first place?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The guy on or near the RA could be a secondary defender is what I'm saying. Wouldn't he be the C's responsibility?

His only responsibility? No.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Imagining myself as the C in that play I figure to be looking at the matchup near the block first, as it's entirely possible for a shot to go up and those two jostling for rebounding position. At the same time keeping an eye on what the dribbler is doing. I wouldn't have been surprised at all if the dribbler decided to pass to his teammate who would be in front of me for a quick shot attempt.

OK, but not seeing your point here. The matchups on the C's side were just standing. They were not moving or cutting to the basket.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I don't have strong feelings against the C taking this call, but this isn't a case where absolutely nothing his happening in his area and therefore it makes more sense for him to be looking across his primary to the other side.

Well, absolutely nothing was happening in his area. Players were just standing and watching. You do not need to be hawking players just standing. When I say competitive match-up, usually that means they are trying to set screens, cut or working around in the post for the ball. Players that stand do not need any extra attention.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

And being clearly in the lead's area I'm giving him first crack at this call, instead of immediately making a call without any thought given to my partner (which is why I don't think he even knew the lead blew his whistle). And if the lead was straightlined then why did he blow his whistle in the first place?

Well, this is not a play where they have the same angle. So the "first crack" to me suggests they see the same thing. They are not looking at the same thing, the C has an open look on the play and makes a call based on that open look. If I was the L, I would be fine with his whistle and call. We are a team, not individuals working the game.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The guy on or near the RA could be a secondary defender is what I'm saying. Wouldn't he be the C's responsibility?

...

Secondary defenders in the paint are the responsibility of the Lead. The Lead shouldn't be looking at the primary matchup on this play, he should be watching for possible secondary defenders coming from any direction.

[BryanV21]

I guess I am looking for reasons why the C shouldn't have this call, instead of reasons he should.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I guess I am looking for reasons why the C shouldn't have this call, instead of reasons he should.

College supervisors want active C's, especially on plays that curl or move towards them and the C has an open look.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

...

2. The lead also had a whistle on this play, and should have been given first crack at this play. To be fair, in the heat of the moment, you sometimes don't hear that second whistle, though. Heck, it's not like the lead didn't have a good look at the play, either...

The Lead has absolutely no view of this play (that's not a criticism, just how it played out), and should have had last crack on this play. The Trail took himself out of the play with his movement on A1's initial catch. The C had a wide open look as the play came towards him, so no problem what so ever with his whistle, but I'm sure he did not see the whole play when contact was first initiated. He saw only the obvious push off by A1.

If the Trail doesn't back out, and then steps down on the drive to see in between A1 and B1, he would have been in position to see the whole play, to include the initial contact.