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so cal lurker Thu Dec 14, 2017 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef (Post 1012907)
Anytime a coach sets up a play to trick the officials, there should be skepticism

Say what? How is a screen to give the player doing the throw in an unimpeded long pass for a desperation shot designed to trick the officials?

bob jenkins Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef (Post 1012907)
Anytime a coach sets up a play to trick the officials, there should be skepticism

I agree.

This wasn't that, though.

CallMeMrRef Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 1012915)
Say what? How is a screen to give the player doing the throw in an unimpeded long pass for a desperation shot designed to trick the officials?

The screener took the contact will full intention of going to the floor. He was more like taking a charge to get a call than trying to free up the thrower in. If he really wanted to have that play set up as an effective screen he would have braced and held his ground, which certainly would have been a no call

Raymond Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1012878)
Here is the play (I think).

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dVwqhag4MKE" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

If Trails doesn't bail out when A1 initially gets the ball, he could have stepped down on the drive and saw that B1 initiates illegal contact with his left arm prior to A1's push-off.

Center is calling what he sees, which is A1's push off. The Lead had no reason to come with his late whistle, he was straight-lined.

Raymond Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1012893)
I agree. No time/distance was given. At the time the screen was set, the defender was moving and didn't take even one step before contact occurred. Screen was late and was, as a result, illegal. The instinct on the signal was correct.

These were my initial thoughts also, but I can understand if some don't see it that way.

hamnegger Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1012853)
This play could be several things, but cannot be a no call.

Why? he doesn't plow through the screener there is contact and he kind of awkwardly falls bc he didnt see the screen coming. It is close but the you could find fouls on either team or no call depending on how you interpret the screening rule.

Raymond Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 1012895)
...

2. The lead also had a whistle on this play, and should have been given first crack at this play. To be fair, in the heat of the moment, you sometimes don't hear that second whistle, though. Heck, it's not like the lead didn't have a good look at the play, either...

The Lead has absolutely no view of this play (that's not a criticism, just how it played out), and should have had last crack on this play. The Trail took himself out of the play with his movement on A1's initial catch. The C had a wide open look as the play came towards him, so no problem what so ever with his whistle, but I'm sure he did not see the whole play when contact was first initiated. He saw only the obvious push off by A1.

If the Trail doesn't back out, and then steps down on the drive to see in between A1 and B1, he would have been in position to see the whole play, to include the initial contact.

Nevadaref Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:18pm

The first time that I saw this play was in an NCAA tournament game by Princeton. I believe it was during the 90s. It has been around at least 30 years.

Raymond Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 1012905)
The guy on or near the RA could be a secondary defender is what I'm saying. Wouldn't he be the C's responsibility?

...

Secondary defenders in the paint are the responsibility of the Lead. The Lead shouldn't be looking at the primary matchup on this play, he should be watching for possible secondary defenders coming from any direction.

BryanV21 Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:30pm

I guess I am looking for reasons why the C shouldn't have this call, instead of reasons he should.

Raymond Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 1012928)
I guess I am looking for reasons why the C shouldn't have this call, instead of reasons he should.

College supervisors want active C's, especially on plays that curl or move towards them and the C has an open look.

AremRed Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 1012880)
It does not say "and the player does not see the screen." It says outside the visual field. 40-40-3 defines "within the visual field" as screening opponent from front or side. This screen was on the side. Within visual field by definition. 40-40-4 defines outside visual field as from behind.

It's not about whether player actually saw the screener or not.

What the hell kinda rule set has a 40-40-4 rule? Not NCAA-M, which we are using for this play.

AremRed Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamnegger (Post 1012921)
Why? he doesn't plow through the screener there is contact and he kind of awkwardly falls bc he didnt see the screen coming. It is close but the you could find fouls on either team or no call depending on how you interpret the screening rule.

Plowing through the screener is exactly what he does lol.

A to B movement is displacement.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Dec 14, 2017 03:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by walt (Post 1012875)
At NCAA-W camps this past summer and at clinics this fall, I was told the only blind screen is the one set behind the player being screened. Side screens were to be considered in the visual field. I agree with others that said right to call a foul, wrong signal given at the spot. It is close, but from the video and watching it live, I thought the screener gave the defender time to stop and/or change direction. He didn't do that and pushed through the screen. Foul on Red.


A screen set to the side of the screened player is to considered in the visual field of the screened player has been part of the screening rule is over 55 years old.

MTD, Sr.

Camron Rust Thu Dec 14, 2017 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef (Post 1012907)
The NCAA book does not define visual field - but refers to it as blind. If the player didn't see it cause his eyes were fixed on the thrower, it was blind to him.

That is not what a blind screen is.

Blind is about what could/should be seeable, not what the defender actually sees. Blind screens are screens set directly behind the opponent where even looking both left and right it wouldn't be seen.


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