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-   -   End of Wisconsin/WKU (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103233-end-wisconsin-wku.html)

deecee Thu Dec 14, 2017 09:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef (Post 1012863)
Nothing about this makes any sense at all. Are we sure the Wisconsin player's left foot wasn't on the line? That wouldn't constitute legal position.

Should have used a push signal but the right call.

This has to do in relation to guarding position and not screening principles I believe (I have to find my rule book to confirm). Although I don't think the player was on the line anyway.

#olderthanilook Thu Dec 14, 2017 09:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef (Post 1012863)
I've never understood the "if you have a player on the ground, you have to have a whistle" theory. No, if you have a player on the ground you need to determine WHY he's on the ground and then you might have a whistle from there.

Same here. Yet, I often hear it espoused several times per year during my h.s. pre-game discussions.

I'm only interested in the "why", but a lot of guys seem to feel obligated to put a whistle on anything that results in a player(s) hitting the deck.

Raymond Thu Dec 14, 2017 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1012865)
Should have used a push signal but the right call.

This has to do in relation to guarding position and not screening principles I believe (I have to find my rule book to confirm). Although I don't think the player was on the line anyway.

Screeners cannot be OOB when setting a screen. It was a major rule change this year.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 14, 2017 09:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1012865)
Should have used a push signal but the right call.

This has to do in relation to guarding position and not screening principles I believe (I have to find my rule book to confirm). Although I don't think the player was on the line anyway.

The "inbound" requirement was added to screening this year, to make it cinsistent with the same requirement for LGP

deecee Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1012868)
The "inbound" requirement was added to screening this year, to make it cinsistent with the same requirement for LGP

Good to know, since I retired this summer. Don't have the new rulebook.

TriggerMN Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:17am

In my opinion, the call was 100% correct, the signal was just wrong. Screener gave time and distance, and was completely inbounds. Defense went right through the screener.

Rut, can you find another clip from this game? The same Wisconsin player drew a PC foul in the lane with approximately 45-50 seconds remaining in the game that was called by the C opposite. I think that play could warrant a discussion as well.

JRutledge Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef (Post 1012863)
Nothing about this makes any sense at all. Are we sure the Wisconsin player's left foot wasn't on the line? That wouldn't constitute legal position.

I've got nothing here either. I've never understood the "if you have a player on the ground, you have to have a whistle" theory. No, if you have a player on the ground you need to determine WHY he's on the ground and then you might have a whistle from there.

It did not look like it was touching the line at all to me. Looked at that a few times to be sure. Nothing in the video said he was on the line.

Peace

walt Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:18am

At NCAA-W camps this past summer and at clinics this fall, I was told the only blind screen is the one set behind the player being screened. Side screens were to be considered in the visual field. I agree with others that said right to call a foul, wrong signal given at the spot. It is close, but from the video and watching it live, I thought the screener gave the defender time to stop and/or change direction. He didn't do that and pushed through the screen. Foul on Red.

sdoebler Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:19am

I don't have my rule book handy but there is a line in screens that says if the screener is in legal position to screen and the player does not see the screen and runs into the screener the contact can be severe and should be a no call.

JRutledge Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggerMN (Post 1012871)
Rut, can you find another clip from this game? The same Wisconsin player drew a PC foul in the lane with approximately 45-50 seconds remaining in the game that was called by the C opposite. I think that play could warrant a discussion as well.

Here is the play (I think).

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dVwqhag4MKE" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

walt Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:24am

Correct but that is where the judgment piece comes in. From the clip, the official obviously ruled the player being screened within his visual field had a chance to stop or change direction and instead pushed through the screen.

BigCat Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdoebler (Post 1012877)
I don't have my rule book handy but there is a line in screens that says if the screener is in legal position to screen and the player does not see the screen and runs into the screener the contact can be severe and should be a no call.

It does not say "and the player does not see the screen." It says outside the visual field. 40-40-3 defines "within the visual field" as screening opponent from front or side. This screen was on the side. Within visual field by definition. 40-40-4 defines outside visual field as from behind.

It's not about whether player actually saw the screener or not.

sdoebler Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 1012880)
It does not say "and the player does not see the screen." It says outside the visual field. 40-40-3 defines "within the visual field" as screening opponent from front or side. This screen was on the side. Within visual field by definition.

I'm not trying to get too nit picky because it is a difficult play to officiate. The screener is not 90º to the side he is slightly back by positioning. If you freeze the pay at :43 seconds the defender 100% can not see the screener when he makes contact.

TriggerMN Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1012878)
Here is the play (I think).

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dVwqhag4MKE" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

Yes, this is the play, thank you.

This one is really tight. I'm wondering if folks think that the C should be the primary calling official on this play. The contact occurred outside the lane on the side of the floor opposite the C. On one hand the play seems to be opening up to him, but is this too far to reach as the primary whistle?

sdoebler Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriggerMN (Post 1012882)
Yes, this is the play, thank you.

This one is really tight. I'm wondering if folks think that the C should be the primary calling official on this play. The contact occurred outside the lane on the side of the floor opposite the C. On one hand the play seems to be opening up to him, but is this too far to reach as the primary whistle?

I think the leads view is of the back of the defender, I don't know that he has any chance to see any type of push off from his angle.


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