Illegal Subsitution

[ksopak]

We had an interesting call last night involving a potential illegal sub. Here is the scenario:

We had four subs at the table waiting to get called into the game. Once a travel occurred on our opponent the official beckoned in the FOUR subs. When the ball went into play we discovered we only had four players on the floor. Once we detected the lack of required players the ball was advanced into the front court (our bench was on the opposite side of the floor)and our 5th player (previously in the game) ran onto the floor. We were immediately called for an illegal sub and issued a bench technical foul.

The crew we had was/is very experienced and was 100% confident in the call. The game was not in doubt and since we basically goofed the whole thing up I did not put up any fight but it seems to me this is not the right call. However, I am only a coach and outside of knowing how many points a basket is worth I am pretty clueless, despite nearly 20 years coaching I will add the ref indicated I would have had to take a time out to enter the sub. To me this does not seem correct as I would not be entering a sub but rather a player that was already in the game but mistakenly walked off the court during a mass sub situation. so here are my questions:

1) Should a technical been issued?

2) What kind of technical? Is this assigned to the player that committed the violation by entering the floor and thus a personal foul? Is it added to the team fouls? Does the seat belt rule come into effect for this type of technical?

3) Hypothetically, if #1 is in the affirmative then in the situation where the ref places the ball on the floor after a team is slow to come out of the time out and begins his/her five second count then would there be five illegal subs as they would all run onto the court after the ball was placed in play?

Thanks for any answers and/or insight. As I mentioned this was a very good and experienced crew. To me this does not make sense unless the player was not on the floor previously. Now the crew mentioned they should not have entered the ball without ten players on the court. We even had a friendly barb when later in the game prior to entering the ball he reminded the other team they needed another player on the floor

[Camron Rust]

1. No. The T was incorrect

NFHS ruling (almost identical to your play):

10.3.2 SITUATION B: After a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both Team A and Team B, A5 goes to the bench and remains there, mistakenly believing he/she has been replaced. The ball is put in play even though Team A has only four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A’s frontcourt when the coach of Team A realizes they have only four players. The coach yells for A5 to return and he/she sprints directly onto the court and catches up with the play. RULING: No technical foul is charged to A5. A5’s return to the court was not deceitful, nor did it provide A5 an unfair positioning advantage on the court.

The rest of the questions are not relevant since this shouldn't have been a T at all.

If the situation had been after a timeout instead, the ruling is different, but not for being slow to come out...

10.1.9 SITUATION: Following a charged time-out Team B is still with their coach on the sideline when the official sounds the whistle to indicate play will resume. Four players of B return to the court just in time to play defense as A1 attempts an unsuccessful three-pointer. B1 rebounds and throws a long pass to B5 who enters the court just in time to catch the pass. RULING: A technical foul is immediately charged to Team B for failing to have all players return to the court at approximately the same time following a time-out or intermission. While it is true the entire team may be off the court while the procedure is being used, once a team responds, all players must enter the court at approximately the same time.

[deecee]

Don't assume an "experienced" guy knows the rules.

There are some obscure scenarios that could happen in a game that I may very well get incorrect. However the more run of the mill ones, like this, I would hope I wouldn't kick a rule application.

[Shooter14]

Who does T go to in this scenario if it is a T? The player who runs on the floor for the advantage? The coach?

[jTheUmp]

Well, it's not a T in this situation, so it's not charged to anybody.

The only way you can have a T in this type of situation is if:
a) there are more than 5 players for Team A on the court (a Team technical, which isn't charged to anyone in particular and only adds to the team foul count)
b) A substitute enters without reporting to the scorer and/or without being beckoned by the officials (charged to the substitute)

[Shooter14]

Was referring to 10.1.9. When the 5th player runs out late which creates an obvious advantage.

[ksopak]

Thanks for the responses and glad I stumbled on this site. So many things happen in a game it will be great to keep checking here for the information.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

Was referring to 10.1.9. When the 5th player runs out late which creates an obvious advantage.

In Situation 10.1.9, it says "charged to Team B".