How do you handle this mess?

[Sharpshooternes]

Sorry, I tried to embed just the clip but got the whole game. At 44:13 is when the action happens. Made bucket with a rebound foul. This is a really a dead ball PF???

[Smitty]

Yes that looks like they should have let that go as incidental contact. It certainly wasn't worth penalizing as dead ball contact technical-worthy. The officials should have gotten together and discussed the timing of the foul and determined that the ball was dead and declared it an inadvertent whistle.

[bob jenkins]

Note that in NCAAW this year, you can have a (common) personal foul during the dead ball period after a made basket. (You could, of course, also have unsportsmanlike or disqualifying fouls, if the contact so warranted -- just as in the past, although the names have changed.)

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Note that in NCAAW this year, you can have a (common) personal foul during the dead ball period after a made basket.

So you can have a dead ball personal foul? Not related to an airborne shooter? Why?

It seems to me that the rules committees for both men and women are trying to get way too cute, providing solutions where there were no problems to begin with.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So you can have a dead ball personal foul? Not related to an airborne shooter? Why?

So the officials don't have to decide whether the contact happened just before or just after the ball passed through the basket.

Now, one might ask how contact during this dead ball period that does not rise to the level of unsportsmanlike or disqualifying (or intentional or flagrant to use FED terms) can create an advantage, but if it does...

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So the officials don't have to decide whether the contact happened just before or just after the ball passed through the basket.

Now, one might ask how contact during this dead ball period that does not rise to the level of unsportsmanlike or disqualifying (or intentional or flagrant to use FED terms) can create an advantage, but if it does...

Can you post the actual wording of the rule? I'm not doubting you at all. I'm just curious how they've worded it.

[bob jenkins]

Section 10. Personal Fouls
Art. 1. A personal foul is a player's illegal contact with an opponent during a
live ball, except for the dead-ball period immediately following a successful goal.
(Note: Illegal contact that occurs before the ball becomes live at the start of the game
or after the ball has become dead following the end of any period shall be either an
unsportsmanlike or disqualifying foul.)
a. Player-control foul. A player-control foul is a personal foul committed
by a player when she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter.
b. Team-control foul. A team-control foul is a personal foul that is
committed by a player of a team that has team control.

A.R. 268. A1’s try is in flight when B1, who is attempting to gain rebounding
position, fouls A2. A1’s try is successful. The officials decide to use the courtside
monitor to determine whether B1’s foul is an unsportsmanlike or contact
disqualifying foul. While using replay, the officials determine that B1’s foul does
not rise to the level of an unsportsmanlike or contact disqualifying foul, but it is
determined that B1’s foul occurred after A1’s try had completely passed through
the basket and the ball was dead.
RULING: When B1’s foul is committed during the dead ball that
immediately follows a successful goal (field goal or free throw)
and the contact does not rise to the level of an unsportsmanlike or
disqualifying foul, a personal foul shall be charged to B1.
Note: The determination to penalize the illegal contact following
a goal may be made by the officials on the playing court; it is not
necessary that a courtside monitor be used.
(Rule 10-10.1)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Yes that looks like they should have let that go as incidental contact. It certainly wasn't worth penalizing as dead ball contact technical-worthy. The officials should have gotten together and discussed the timing of the foul and determined that the ball was dead and declared it an inadvertent whistle.

Agree. No foul, by rule, since the ball was dead and it wasn't intentional or flagrant.

[JRutledge]

When you go to "share" in YouTube, you go the the embed part of the pop-up and click on "Start at." Then since you wanted the game started at a certain point, you will have the video start here at that time.



Peace

[JRutledge]

For the record, I got nothing. The only foul that should be considered is maybe the foul on the shooter. But once the ball goes through the basket, it is a dead ball and the only call that should be made if it is on the big white jersey kid is a technical foul. I do not think the contact is intentional or flagrant in nature, so it needs to be left alone. But shooting bonus FTs is actually wrong in this case.

Peace

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So you can have a dead ball personal foul? Not related to an airborne shooter? Why?

It seems to me that the rules committees for both men and women are trying to get way too cute, providing solutions where there were no problems to begin with.

Agree 100%. Same thing with the death of first to touch/last to touch and the loose ball team control concept on the men's side. I feel the collegiate rules committees have become a bit too responsive to coaches recently, particularly in some cases of short-term reaction to the result of a big play late in the previous season with little regard for whether the issue was a truly systemic problem. As a result, many exceptions are creeping into the rule books. Rule books are supposed to eschew exceptions as much as possible. If they don't, they become increasingly confusing for officials to enforce. Coaches and ADs need to realize that sometimes a definition isn't going to work out in their favor. Change the definition or the rules logic if need be, but please avoid the use of the word "except" as much as possible in the rule and case books.

I don't work college, though when I'm done with my military career I'll probably take a crack at it (BNR is my hero). One thing I'm really concerned about is the huge gap that's starting to form between NFHS and NCAA rules. I would imagine it's getting harder and harder to switch gears between a Tuesday night varsity game and a Wednesday night D3 contest.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So the officials don't have to decide whether the contact happened just before or just after the ball passed through the basket.

Now, one might ask how contact during this dead ball period that does not rise to the level of unsportsmanlike or disqualifying (or intentional or flagrant to use FED terms) can create an advantage, but if it does...

Easy...can cause thr throw-in team a delay in getting to the ball and either getting 5 second delay or allow the defense to set up a press. Obviously the former shouldnt be a factor but you never know if you get the rigbt official...