travel off a dribble.

[BigCat]

The dribble ends the moment hand goes under the ball. That's when you look to see what foot is on the ground. Which is the pivot. "Gather" makes people think the ball has to be caught/two hands before you look for the pivot. That's wrong. The term doesn't help. That's my opinion. And I agree with it��

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The dribble ends the moment hand goes under the ball. That's when you look to see what foot is on the ground. Which is the pivot. "Gather" makes people think the ball has to be caught/two hands before you look for the pivot. That's wrong. The term doesn't help. That's my opinion. And I agree with it��

That makes 6 of us.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The dribble ends the moment hand goes under the ball. That's when you look to see what foot is on the ground. Which is the pivot. "Gather" makes people think the ball has to be caught/two hands before you look for the pivot. That's wrong. The term doesn't help. That's my opinion. And I agree with it��

What if they grab it with one hand up top? There are players that do not need to put their hand under the ball to stop their dribble. So we cannot assume that is the only way to stop a dribble and neither does the rules suggest that is the only way to end a dribble. The rules actually says, "Catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands." It does not say the dribble only ends when the ball is under the hands or hands. The term is used to describe when a dribble ends as most people know what a "gather" of the ball means. Saying the dribble ends can mean different things to different people.

But when most players are trying to go to the basket and take a shot, they typically grab the ball with both hands.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What if they grab it with one hand up top? There are players that do not need to put their hand under the ball to stop their dribble. So we cannot assume that is the only way to stop a dribble and neither does the rules suggest that is the only way to end a dribble. The rules actually says, "Catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands." It does not say the dribble only ends when the ball is under the hands or hands. The term is used to describe when a dribble ends as most people know what a "gather" of the ball means. Saying the dribble ends can mean different things to different people.

But when most players are trying to go to the basket and take a shot, they typically grab the ball with both hands.

Peace

Yeah, you can end the dribble with hand on top by palming it. Ending the dribble is the way to describe it. Gather makes people think two hands are required. And when most people go to the basket the dribble ends in one hand and the other is comes right after. Very rarely does the dribble end with both hands on ball at same time. Left or right hand brings it to the other. Gather makes people think two hands required. Not the rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Yeah, you can end the dribble with hand on top by palming it. Ending the dribble is the way to describe it. Gather makes people think two hands are required. And when most people go to the basket the dribble ends in one hand and the other is comes right after. Very rarely does the dribble end with both hands on ball at same time. Left or right hand brings it to the other. Gather makes people think two hands required. Not the rule.

Again in my experience, most players stop the dribble when they want to pass and shoot and do so with both hands. Usually, they are showboating or making a very risky play if they do not grab the ball with both hands. And to many, that is how we were taught on some level to grab the ball.

Also, I think if you are splitting hairs with how a dribble ends when the player is bringing the ball to both of their hands, then you will be awful inconsistent (IMO) in trying to determine what a fast moving player is doing. I like to use the "gather" or when players being the ball together with both of their hands because it is clearer when that took place and most of the time.

So you lose me when you want to make it sound like the use of "gather" is confusing when that is what players do on these kinds of play and they make a move to the basket as in this video. He attempted a jump stop and shot attempt. It is just a line of demarcation. It is not the only way a dribble can end, but most plays like this do not end any other way.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Also, I think if you are splitting hairs with how a dribble ends when the player is bringing the ball to both of their hands, then you will be awful inconsistent (IMO) in trying to determine what a fast moving player is doing. I like to use the "gather" or when players being the ball together with both of their hands because it is clearer when that took place and most of the time.

Above is why NFHS and NCAA are the only two rule sets in the world still trying to use this determination to establish pivot foot. NBA and FIBA both now have "zero" step on catch/when dribble is ended by moving player and first foot contact after that is first step and pivot foot.

As their are multiple ways to end dribble/gather/(insert appropriate descriptive language) and determining when exactly this happens is inexact in real time all other rule sets are now establishing pivot foot after we can clearly see the ball has been caught/picked up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Also, I think if you are splitting hairs with how a dribble ends when the player is bringing the ball to both of their hands, then you will be awful inconsistent (IMO) in trying to determine what a fast moving player is doing. I like to use the "gather" or when players being the ball together with both of their hands because it is clearer when that took place and most of the time.

Above is why NFHS and NCAA are the only two rule sets in the world still trying to use this determination to establish pivot foot. NBA and FIBA both now have "zero" step on catch/when dribble is ended by moving player and first foot contact after that is first step and pivot foot.

As their are multiple ways to end dribble/gather/(insert appropriate descriptive language) and determining when exactly this happens is inexact in real time all other rule sets are now establishing pivot foot after we can clearly see the ball has been caught/picked up.

At least for the NBA, people claim there is traveling when the rule might not support their claim. I do not think any of this changes because of the rules set that are being used.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Also, I think if you are splitting hairs with how a dribble ends when the player is bringing the ball to both of their hands, then you will be awful inconsistent (IMO) in trying to determine what a fast moving player is doing. I like to use the "gather" or when players being the ball together with both of their hands because it is clearer when that took place and most of the time.

Above is why NFHS and NCAA are the only two rule sets in the world still trying to use this determination to establish pivot foot. NBA and FIBA both now have "zero" step on catch/when dribble is ended by moving player and first foot contact after that is first step and pivot foot.

As their are multiple ways to end dribble/gather/(insert appropriate descriptive language) and determining when exactly this happens is inexact in real time all other rule sets are now establishing pivot foot after we can clearly see the ball has been caught/picked up.

Whether you have the NBA/FIBA rule or the NFHS/NCAA rule, you still have some action that marks the when the traveling rules come into effect, regardless of how much foot movement is permitted. All the FIBA/NBA rules have done is make it so that more foot movement after a catch is legal...but there is still a specific point at which the travel rules begin. When was the ball caught? And, then, how much foot movement is legal.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What if they grab it with one hand up top? There are players that do not need to put their hand under the ball to stop their dribble. So we cannot assume that is the only way to stop a dribble and neither does the rules suggest that is the only way to end a dribble. The rules actually says, "Catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands." It does not say the dribble only ends when the ball is under the hands or hands. The term is used to describe when a dribble ends as most people know what a "gather" of the ball means. Saying the dribble ends can mean different things to different people.

But when most players are trying to go to the basket and take a shot, they typically grab the ball with both hands.

Peace

You understand that dribble can end with one hand on bottom top etc. that's what gather means to you. But to most people when they hear gather they think two hands required. Dribble ends covers everything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

You understand that dribble can end with one hand on bottom top etc. that's what gather means to you. But to most people when they hear gather they think two hands required. Dribble ends covers everything.

But the player in this play gathered the ball with two hands. Not understanding why it matters about anything else right now.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But the player in this play gathered the ball with two hands. Not understanding why it matters about anything else right now.

Peace

I agree in this play the kid "ended the dribble with two hands." Or was close enough that I cant tell. Again, I really think most dribble are ended with one hand and brought to the other. Most people that i hear think "gather" means the dribble cant end until two hands on the ball. You agree two hands arent required. I just dont like the term gathered for what i know it means to most other people. Nothing more nothing less..

I need to learn how to post video stuff etc...when you have time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I agree in this play the kid "ended the dribble with two hands." Or was close enough that I cant tell. Again, I really think most dribble are ended with one hand and brought to the other. Most people that i hear think "gather" means the dribble cant end until two hands on the ball. You agree two hands arent required. I just dont like the term gathered for what i know it means to most other people. Nothing more nothing less..

I need to learn how to post video stuff etc...when you have time.

I think people use the term "gather" in relation to starting a shooting motion. I rarely hear it used when it comes to traveling alone.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think people use the term "gather" in relation to starting a shooting motion. I rarely hear it used when it comes to traveling alone.

Peace

It does make more sense there. Just never been a fan of the term...