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Old Wed Sep 06, 2017, 09:03pm
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2017-18 NFHS Error(s)

Find the error! (I do believe the FED still expects this to be ruled a TC foul.)

4.19.7 Situation D, page 29 of 2017-18 Case Book

A1 has the ball for a throw in. The throw-in pass deflects off of A2. As A2 and B2 are attempting to retrieve the loose throw-in pass, A2 illegally pushes B2 from behind and the action is ruled a foul. Team B is in the bonus. RULING: Team A is in control during this throw in, therefore a team-control foul has been committed. B2 is awarded a throw in at a spot closest to where the foul occurred.
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Old Wed Sep 06, 2017, 09:29pm
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It's a correct interpretation/end result IMO, though as usual the case play wording could be better. The TI ended when the ball was legally touched, so you can't really say "Team A is in control during this throw in" in defense of your ruling. Something along the lines of, "a loose ball remains in control of the team that last had player control" would have at least been closer to the truth.

Without having my rule book in front of me, I think the definition of team control is a little wanting in that gray area between when the TI ends and player control is established inbounds (when such a gap occurs).


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Old Thu Sep 07, 2017, 04:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
It's a correct interpretation/end result IMO, though as usual the case play wording could be better. The TI ended when the ball was legally touched, so you can't really say "Team A is in control during this throw in" in defense of your ruling. Something along the lines of, "a loose ball remains in control of the team that last had player control" would have at least been closer to the truth.

Without having my rule book in front of me, I think the definition of team control is a little wanting in that gray area between when the TI ends and player control is established inbounds (when such a gap occurs).
Not unclear at all. Spelled out perfectly in 4-19-7.
"...or by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds."
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Old Thu Sep 07, 2017, 04:29am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Not unclear at all. Spelled out perfectly in 4-19-7.

"...or by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds."


Well there you go! Thanks Nevada. So it's inaccurate to say that team control exists during the the throw in in defense of this ruling, but it IS accurate to say that a team control foul occurs when a foul is committed by a member of the throw-in team from the start of the throw-in until player control is obtained inbounds."


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Old Thu Sep 07, 2017, 09:20am
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I know that this play is a TC foul by rule. My qualm, if you will, is the typical shoddy NFHS justification.
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Old Thu Sep 07, 2017, 10:19am
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All the additional justification seems unnecessary to me. A deflection on a throw in is neither of the 3 below. Therefore team control continues.

ART. 3 . . . Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
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Old Thu Sep 07, 2017, 01:12pm
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Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
All the additional justification seems unnecessary to me. A deflection on a throw in is neither of the 3 below. Therefore team control continues.

ART. 3 . . . Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
Yes, team control still continues for foul purposes even when the TI pass is deflected. But the TI ended on that deflection, so saying "Team A is in control during this throw in" is, in this context, inaccurate as a justification for the ruling.

Team control for violation purposes does not begin until a player obtains control inbounds.
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Old Thu Sep 07, 2017, 09:15pm
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Hey, differences of opinion aside, I'm just glad there have been a few new topics posted on this forum lately. My goodness has it ever been slow lately. Rich....are you still even alive?

First meeting in just under three weeks here. About time. The post-summer lull has been exceptionally boring this year.


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Old Fri Sep 08, 2017, 01:03am
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Hey, differences of opinion aside, I'm just glad there have been a few new topics posted on this forum lately. My goodness has it ever been slow lately. Rich....are you still even alive?

First meeting in just under three weeks here. About time. The post-summer lull has been exceptionally boring this year.


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This is about as slow as I think I've ever seen it at this time of year.
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Old Fri Sep 08, 2017, 08:34am
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
This is about as slow as I think I've ever seen it at this time of year.

I agree. This is the first time since I have retired from my real life profession that my laziness has spilled over to this Forum. I have just sat back and read the comments by others instead.

I have done some commenting on the Baseball and Softball Forums but that was actually Mark, Jr., commenting by proxy through me because he was doing an engineering co-op this Summer as well as taking an EE class at night.

Well, I have seen the "better half" of to work, had breakfast, read the newspaper, checked my email, checked in here, so it is time for me to take my post-breakfast nap in preparation for my pre-lunch nap.

Have a great weekend everyone and go YSU Penguins and The OSU Buckeyes!

MTD, Sr.
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Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 01:21pm. Reason: Corrected spellilng of Penguins.
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Old Fri Sep 08, 2017, 09:52am
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post

Have a great weekend everyone and go YSU Peguins and The OSU Buckeyes!

MTD, Sr.
I found out what a "Peguin" is -

Verb. peguin: third-person plural present subjunctive form of pegar; third-person plural imperative form of pegar.

Kind of a strange nickname for a college sports team.
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Old Fri Sep 08, 2017, 09:59am
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Well, I have seen the "better half" of to work, had breakfast, read the newspaper, checked my email, checked in here, so it is time for me to take my post-breakfast nap in preparation for my pre-lunch nap.
I want to be

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., Official Forum Member

when I grow up, er, older.
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Old Fri Sep 08, 2017, 01:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
I found out what a "Peguin" is -

Verb. peguin: third-person plural present subjunctive form of pegar; third-person plural imperative form of pegar.

Kind of a strange nickname for a college sports team.


I corrected the spelling. That is what I get for posting from my Kindle in the middle of the night.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Fri Sep 08, 2017, 02:03pm
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I corrected the spelling. That is what I get for posting from my Kindle in the middle of the night.

MTD, Sr.
Mark - I hope you know I was only teasing. I would never try to embarrass anyone named "Mark".
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